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How would you improve China?

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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    To me the revolution begins at home. If FT wants to bring about great changes in the PRC he possibly could help by giving his staff some dignity and respect and develop them to be as good as he as is as getting the work done and enjoying his life.
    Are you for real? Without voicing an opinion on how these staff are treated, I find it impossible to believe that anyone can credibly link their employment conditions in Hong Kong to regime change in China.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    Are you for real? Without voicing an opinion on how these staff are treated, I find it impossible to believe that anyone can credibly link their employment conditions in Hong Kong to regime change in China.
    Are you for real? All you do lately is rant about about others while offering nothing of substance to discussions.

    Freetrader posted how he regards his staff. And yes, the revolution begins at home. If you want genuine change you have to live it and practice it whether it is environmental issues or political issues.

    Unless he is being facetious he shows the same disdain for people that he accuses the PRC of showing.

    People who stand up for their beliefs despite the knowledge that it can get them into trouble are typically those who practice what they espouse they want for others.

    For someone who spouts off about the education of others I am surprised that you have not a clue as to the context of my statement about the revolution beginning at home. For some one who is such an education snob you must have missed that poly sci class - completely but then again it'd be having to understand political systems other than those that directly parallel your own beliefs or you'd be stumped - which you are.
    Last edited by Football16; 11-04-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Are you not responsible for the use of your staff resources and how you work them?

    Not accountable for this to anyone?

    Terminate them if they complained about this situation? Wow, they must really respect you or are desperate or dumb or some combination of all three.

    I thought it was mostly the local managers who didn't realize that there is no way people can be productive with ridiculous hours all the time as there are mostly just there to keep up appearances.

    How FreeTrader manages doesn't square with how he thinks the PRC should manage its people too much now does it.

    To me the revolution begins at home. If FT wants to bring about great changes in the PRC he possibly could help by giving his staff some dignity and respect and develop them to be as good as he as is as getting the work done and enjoying his life.
    Get a sense of humor, Football. I'm exaggerating (a little). Of course, even if it is all true, anyone who works for me can move to another job. Nobody in China can get another government.

    That, really, is the point. Thanks for helping me make it.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    Are these real news reports or fake propaganda like the economic crimes story? I just want to be clear on which are true and which are propaganda or does it depend which side of the debate you're on?
    Try reading news from a wide variety of sources. Here is a good place to start: EastSouthWestNorth Blog

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Perhaps that simplistic generalization about Asians explains why my office is also very harmonious. I make about HKD $4 million per year; take long vacations and trips around the world, and leave early every day. My staff get paid a pittance, get two weeks a year vacation, and basically work 24/7 (as a matter of fact, were working this weekend while I took my kids to Ocean Park). What a great situation (for me). What a harmonious office! Yes, we all have "human rights"; those rights simply accrue to me, and not to my staff. Of course, they are very happy with this situation (not that I would ever ask them, or they would ever say anything, since they would immediately be terminated for voicing a view on the issue. But I am sure they are quite happy). For obvious reasons, I want this situation to continue forever. So does the CCP.
    Yes, but you are doing nothing to improve their situation, unlike the Chinese Government..maybe you're the bad guy

  6. #66

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    Ironically my post on this thread got censored by the editor because I used Brit's previous name

    Anyway, I am not a paid CCP hack nor am I Oxbridge educated. I think the oppression of dissenters is wrong but I think the reasons are mostly genuine (i.e. to support stability for the greater good). Don't personally agree with that reason but who I am to argue? So I oppose the actions but do not consider the Chinese rulers to be evil dictators.

    What I find amusing is two things, firstly those most strongly pushing democracy and freedom of expression resort to personal attacks (though G...sorry the Brit...has lost the plot bigstyle and I am beginning to think Moving dumped him in a previous life). Secondly, if China is so evil then why are they living in HK making a lot of money directly or indirectly from that evil? What actually are you doing to change things or at least get your feelings across?

    The whole point about freedom of expression is lost if you shout down and bully anyone who speaks out with a different point of view.

    Last edited by hullexile; 11-04-2011 at 05:59 PM.
    Mat, Football16 and HKITperson like this.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    I (though G...sorry the Brit...has lost the plot bigstyle and I am beginning to think Moving dumped him in a previous life).
    I'd like to think I would have been smart enough not to have got involved in the first place!
    Creative83 and Football16 like this.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Ironically my post on this thread got censored by the editor because I used Brit's previous name

    Anyway, I am not a paid CCP hack nor am I Oxbridge educated. I think the oppression of dissenters is wrong but I think the reasons are mostly genuine (i.e. to support stability for the greater good). Don't personally agree with that reason but who I am to argue? So I oppose the actions but do not consider the Chinese rulers to be evil dictators.

    What I find amusing is two things, firstly those most strongly pushing democracy and freedom of expression resort to personal attacks (though G...sorry the Brit...has lost the plot bigstyle and I am beginning to think Moving dumped him in a previous life). Secondly, if China is so evil then why are they living in HK making a lot of money directly or indirectly from that evil? What actually are you doing to change things or at least get your feelings across?

    The whole point about freedom of expression is lost if you shout down and bully anyone who speaks out with a different point of view.
    I think the whole 'debate' is pointless. Those who speaks well of China have genuine concerns w/ the well being of China or that they're fair minded about what could and could not be done now. The other side of the coin is full of trolling, arguing, and insulting instead of merely making a point in a civilized manner. They're not interested in the well being of countries other than their own. They totally bought into the Fox news' way of communication. When there are motivated people attempting to attack something they don't know much about, the thread always become next to non-functional because they'll always able to gather single evidences from somewhere on the net and make an argument over it. When they're being overwhelmed by good logic, they'll just do the same on the next thread. Nothing changes, but the intent of the thread is ruined. We cannot discuss intended issues when people chooses to troll through threads like this just to have thoughtless arguments going. The intent of the thread was intervened by its 1st post telling the OP is ignorant. How are we able to communicate subjects without diverting it to troll's thinking, insults, and debates?

    I need to ask how.

    Can't imagine what chaos China would be in to free up media and have trolls like these making noise and attempt to stir up civil rebellion.

    I also need to caution those who are arguing with the trolls. Just know they're trolls and leave it. You guys are feeding them too much.
    Last edited by Creative83; 11-04-2011 at 07:18 PM.

  9. #69

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    I was wondering who amongst us might be the first to note that we are all here in Hong Kong, China supporting the regime albeit indirectly.

    When was the last time a financier/IB guy left Hong Kong in protest of the PRC's actions in handling dissent?

    I think good healthy debate is a great and this topic is of great interest to those of us in HK and especially those of you who might be here for a life time or who will stay to raise families here. We should try and keep it without personal attacks but the last thing I like to see is threads close or people who feel they are being run off a board.

    This reminds of what Pierre Trudeau said when he found out Richard Nixon called him an "a..hole" - "I've been called worse things by better people." In truth he was not that thick skinned as he told an opposition MP in Parliament to "F..k off'. When he later was confronted by the media he said "Oh, I don't know...fuddle-duddle or something like that." Then he followed up with giving a voter the middle finger from a train window. Then we had the ill-fated election of 1972 and I came third due to his popularity with the people after amassing the greatest majority (at that time) in Canadian history in 1968.

    We can't take this too seriously. It is all good fun.


  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creative83:
    I think the whole 'debate' is pointless. Those who speaks well of China have genuine concerns w/ the well being of China or that they're fair minded about what could and could not be done now. The other side of the coin is full of trolling, arguing, and insulting instead of merely making a point in a civilized manner. They're not interested in the well being of countries other than their own. They totally bought into the Fox news' way of communication. When there are motivated people attempting to attack something they don't know much about
    What a totally black and white way of looking at it. I have a sincere interest in the well-being of China, having lived there for a number of years, having learned the language there (both Canto and Mando) and having made many great friends there. Living in Hong Kong, a part of "China", where people can enjoy freedoms only shows how China could thrive even more. Living so close to Mainland China, and the economy so dependent on it, why would I want it to fall into Chaos. The same goes for Ai Wei Wei and a countless of known and unknown activists thrown in jail to rot away. They all want a better environment, be it for themselves, their families, or their country.

    If any person is arrested, stripped of his freedoms and tortured just because of speaking his mind it is only logical as a caring human being to stand up to injustice. How can you not?

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