Like Tree139Likes

How would you improve China?

Reply
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 4 9 ... LastLast
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gold Coast Marina
    Posts
    17,939

    How would you improve China?

    Following on from the Ai WeiWei thread it is clear that many on this site believe that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is not doing a good job of running China. So, assuming you were suddenly parachuted into power in China, that top THREE things would you do to improve the country?

    Pls list the items, then identify how you would make sure they were actually implemented (you are only in charge remember) and finally, highlight what you think the impacts would be.

    If you have no suggestions or think that the CCP is doing a good job, then just say so.

    Here are mine.

    On the whole, I think the CCP is doing the best job it can given the size of population and resource constraints facing the country. So mine would be "more of the same but with some slight improvements" - relaxing (but probably not removing) controls on the press; releasing some of the least controversial dissidents (but probably not all of them) and focussing on rooting out and removing corruption at the CCP lower levels.

    I think the impact of this is that there is a risk the free-er press would then report on the corruption rooted out and the words of the dissidents and that there might be some unrest, but that provided economic growth continued this would be manageable and not result in a wholesale revolution like the middle east.


  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    4,164
    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    removing corruption at the CCP lower levels.
    So at the higher levels it's ok?

    To even contemplate such a question you have to first try and understand the power structure in China and it's effect on the ordinary person. Beijing is the big daddy but is far from being in control.

    Yes there is Beijing, but then you have provincial governments, then city / town governments. Then district governments, town governments and village governments or 2nd district governments in larger towns. The power of life or death rests with the bottom rung. At that level of government you can literally do what you want. Murder, rape all without consequence.

    Now all of these tiers of government don't necessarily pass edicts from Beijing down, they implement what they want with no checks and no consequence. Even provincial governments will give a middle finger to Beijing if they feel it is something that will adversely effect them. Guangdong government for example is well known for this.

    So the question and answer is mindbendingly complex and I'll be brutally honest here - your own question and response does highlight your own lack of understanding of China. I'd suggest getting far more involved there, outside of the shiny cities, outside of the tourist traps and right down to spending a lot of time in the real shitehole industrial areas / outlaying areas to really understand the situation there. You may then understand the true impact of policy on the majority of people in China. Or you can choose not to and tell us all is perfectly fine.
    Last edited by jaykay; 09-04-2011 at 08:07 AM.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gold Coast Marina
    Posts
    17,939

    Actually my post was intended to exactly highlight how complex it is, given the idealistically simple crap being spouted on the ai weiwei thread. So thanks.


  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,847

    Free chapatis for all and a happy place it will be.


  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    213

    One perspective on how the chinese view the state

    jaykay, Freetrader and drumbrake like this.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tuen Mun
    Posts
    6,193

    I would trawl Geoexpat and make a list of all the dissenters here. Then, I would freeze their assets :-)


  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Back in California (finally!).
    Posts
    2,079

    I love the way this question is posed: "Resolved: the CCP is doing a good job of running China. Discuss."

    Moving was well-trained in debate as Oxbridge and has purposely framed the question as an argument one can't win. The way the debate is framed already plays into the hands of those who will support the dictatorship. Let's see how the conversation might have gone about some other tyrants:

    [I]"Hitler? Great job; revitalized industry, built the authobahn. Who cares if a few minorities were expropriated? The average German is better off!

    Mussolini - the man made the trains run on time! He is civilizing Libya and Ethiopia! Italy is no longer the "Sick Man of Europe". The average Italian is better off!

    Imperial Japan - well, they are just doing what the Europeans did. And they are Asian - they understand that the Chinese need to be murdered and raped if they are to make any progress! The average Japanese is better off."[/I]

    My unsubtle, obvious point is that whether a government is doing a 'good' job or not is pretty irrelevant if it has no rule of law and ignores human rights. When a government has no legitimacy, disaster will inevitably follow because the leaders can be counted on to do things in their own interest, not in the interest of their people (or the world).

    As Orwell wrote: "One does not establish a dictatorship to protect a revolution. One creates a dictatorship in order to have a dictatorship...the purpose of terror is terror."

    In any case, even taking your question as face value as the (false) dichotomy it represents, even though the PRC is currently enjoying a pretty good run (with actually little thanks to the government itself by the way, although that is another topic), this very same government is responsible for the deaths of 30-50 million Chinese - more than Hitler and Stalin combined. One can argue, as I would, that the system has evolved and the CCP is not an 'evil' organization. But it still has no legitimacy and has its only legitimacy in the terror it can create, as we are currently seeing with it "night and fog"-style decrees about harmless and affable artists and lawyers.

    The CCP needs to figure out a way to allow dissent and begin a transition to a form of government that has some type of legitimacy other than an ability to kill people. They are currently fumbling badly; if they cannot find a way to bend without breaking, the results will only be worse for them, for the Chinese people, and for the world.


  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Back in California (finally!).
    Posts
    2,079
    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    "So mine would be "more of the same but with some slight improvements" - relaxing (but probably not removing) controls on the press; releasing some of the least controversial dissidents (but probably not all of them) and focussing on rooting out and removing corruption at the CCP lower levels."

    "Actually my post was intended to exactly highlight how complex it is, given the idealistically simple crap being spouted on the ai weiwei thread."
    I was going to challenge you, Moving, to find any "idealistically simple crap" being posted on the Ai Weiwei thread, because I am not aware of any, at least, not from me. On the other hand, I don't even have to go back to that thread to find some pretty outrageous statements from you.

    So, you are just fine with a government that controls the press and locks up 'some' dissidents? While I find it somewhat nauseating that someone with the best education the world can provide would spout such nonsense, I am not surprised. I am sure you and other would-be dictators have plenty of company, since "Chinese fascism" is currently about as popular as its Western varieties were during the 1930s...which is to remind you that most 'sophisticates' in the '30s were adherents to either the Nazi or the Soviet variety.

    To quote Orwell again, some ideas are so clearly stupid that only an intellectual could believe them.
    Last edited by Freetrader; 09-04-2011 at 08:41 PM.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    4,732

    I wonder if china has shut this website down yet in china


  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tuen Mun
    Posts
    6,193

    What if most Chinese people are happy with the way things are/are going now? What then? What if most Chinese people think the activists should just shut up and get with the programme?

    Last edited by bryant.english; 09-04-2011 at 10:04 PM.

Reply
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 4 9 ... LastLast