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China Bullet Train Derails

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  1. #11

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    US and European rail infrastructures are old and under-maintained. One expects a little bit more from what is probably the most financially powerful country and not to mention, oh-so-proud of its achievements.

    The whole point of buying and copying technology from other countries is to improve on it. Make it faster, better, cheaper and then sell it back to those countries. Somewhere along the line, safety is forgotten, because well, it would not make it faster, cheaper and better.

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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    Somewhere along the line, safety is forgotten, because well, it would not make it faster, cheaper and better.
    Isn't this the usual case of "pick two"?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    There is corruption and incompetence in every country and sometimes it causes deadly accidents. I bet if the same accident had happened in the US, a certain someone wouldn't have made a thread out of it...

    Train derailment sparks huge fire, evacuations - US news - Life - msnbc.com
    So if anyone writes something negative about China, they are anti-China? Sounds a bit like a China Daily editorial...look at all the advances china has made over the last 20 years (don't mention the last 60 years); China is still a developing country; bad things happen in other countries so it is ok for bad things to happen in China... Time to change the record.
    Freetrader and Dreadnought like this.

  4. #14

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    US and European rail infrastructures are old and under-maintained. One expects a little bit more from what is probably the most financially powerful country and not to mention, oh-so-proud of its achievements.

    The whole point of buying and copying technology from other countries is to improve on it. Make it faster, better, cheaper and then sell it back to those countries. Somewhere along the line, safety is forgotten, because well, it would not make it faster, cheaper and better.
    I agree with earlier posts that derailment is not unique to China. The problem is the high visibility of China's high speed rail. China has highlighted it as a national acheivement and intend to sell it's trains across the world. Now with such accidents, the reputation damage to these efforts will be severe. In short, China has eggs on it's face and its confronted with a serious crediblity problem, this after Chinese experts themselves warn of potential safety problems.
    Freetrader likes this.

  5. #15

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    It's not OK that this happens anywhere in the world including China. I don't think it's accurate to describe this as a typical chinese thing when these kinds of accident frequently occur in every places. Why not focus on the particulars of the incident, the incompetence of specific individuals or entities instead of using it as an excuse for a big fat dump on the whole nation and therefore take out some of the jingoism out of it. Of course, that would take a lot of the fun out for some posters...


  6. #16

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    >> Isn't this the usual case of "pick two"?

    The whole point of copying / adopting technology is to make it all three.


  7. #17

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    >> incompetence of specific individuals or entities instead of using it as an excuse for a big fat dump on the whole nation and therefore take out some of the jingoism out of it.

    Giles, I agree with you conceptually and I'm not attacking the billion people up north, most of them are farmers who do not participate in the intense wealth creation process that is going on there.

    What I'm passionately against is the whole screw rules, screw regulations and screw being a good citizen and human.... lets make money at any cost mentality that exists at the core of this wealth creation that is going on. Perhaps every nation has gone through this, but China seems to epitomize cutting corners to make a buck.

    So, what I'm ranting about is the "Made In China" brand, not the made in china rice farmer who simply is struggling to survive and pay bills like people anywhere in the world.

    This is the type of thing that just makes me wonder how they will progress into a society that cares about the community, cares about the law and cares about things other than just making a fast buck.

    Welcome to China's Fake Apple Store - Global - The Atlantic Wire

    (Don't worry... I have choice things to say about the whole Goldman Sach's alumni turned Havard dean / treasury secretary brand too...)

    Last edited by shri; 24-07-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    There is corruption and incompetence in every country and sometimes it causes deadly accidents. I bet if the same accident had happened in the US, a certain someone wouldn't have made a thread out of it...

    Train derailment sparks huge fire, evacuations - US news - Life - msnbc.com
    Uh, no.

    Shinkansen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sorry gilleshk but your contrarian instinct has run aground once again. The US has a vast rail network, just like Europe, which has existed for over 100 years, and is currently made up of 'ordinary' trains, not super-fast bullet trains. There have been rail accidents in the US, and Europe of course (let's not even bring China's rail safety record into this).

    The point of my post was the bullet trains: Japan has had shinkansen for almost 50 years and there have been no fatal accidents or derailments in that entire time. China gets them, is dismissive of complaints by the Europeans and the Japanese about safety and corruption problems (which I referred to in my post) and within a couple of years manage to have a major fatal accident with (abundantly obvious but not yet proven) safety lapses. This is an obvious public relations blow for China and their brand new, hugely expensive, and almost certainly unnecessary bullet train system.

    If you are going to try snark, gilleshk, you'll have to do better than that.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    It's not OK that this happens anywhere in the world including China. I don't think it's accurate to describe this as a typical chinese thing when these kinds of accident frequently occur in every places. Why not focus on the particulars of the incident, the incompetence of specific individuals or entities instead of using it as an excuse for a big fat dump on the whole nation and therefore take out some of the jingoism out of it. Of course, that would take a lot of the fun out for some posters...
    It's not only a question of incompetent individuals but the also the larger railway ministry. They should have anticipated such potential issues during the research and design phase. There should have been plans to deal with lightning strikes and total power loss. There is a serious safety/contingency failure throughout the entire system here.

    It's not a question of "typical Chinese thing", it's a question of their reputation in regards to high speed train. They cannot sell any of these trains abroad if they cannot have credibility in regards to the safety of such trains.

  10. #20

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    I also should add I find it amusing and sad that people who have commented on this disaster now feel that they have to 'run for cover' and prove they are not somehow 'anti-Chinese' for their criticism. Once again for the non-thinkers out there, it isn't any more anti-Chinese to point out the problems in Chinese society than it is anti-American to point out the problems in American society. However, anyone attempting to take a relatively objective view and make relatively objective comments about China will find quickly themselves attacked as anti-Chinese, by CCP supporters obviously, but sadly, by people here at Geoexpat who should know better.

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