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This China hacking story

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    Dude, you're as bad as the tabloids!!!

    Basically, let's support the USA, no matter what they do......if China do it, it's wrong....

    If that's what you believe, just say it.....it's the bullshit that annoys me....

    Just to clarify:

    "Not all hacking is equal."

    USA hacking = good
    China hacking = bad

    You're right, China is no different than the US or any other country when it comes to hacking......everyone does it, so we should just leave it at that and not explore things any further...

    Moving on.....
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  2. #12

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    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_16242012.htm

    " In the face of unfounded accusations by the United States that the Chinese government and military are behind cyberattacks on US websites, the Ministry of National Defense was quick to respond with a written statement on Tuesday and a news conference on Wednesday. This alone shows China's seriousness and sincerity in addressing cybersecurity.

    A report released by the US Internet security firm Mandiant on Monday claimed that cyberattacks against US websites were traced to a building in Shanghai owned by the Chinese army. But given that hackers' origins are transnational, deceptive and anonymous, the report failed to produce any convincing evidence that its occupants were behind the attacks. It is unprofessional as well as irresponsible for the US firm to base its allegations on such shaky ground.

    China is also a victim of cyberattacks. About 73,000 overseas IP addresses controlled more than 14 million computers in China last year, and 32,000 IP addresses remotely controlled 38,000 Chinese websites. A considerable number of these attacks could be traced back to IP addresses in the United States.

    But China never blamed others for these cyberattacks, as it understands finger pointing will not help solve what is a transnational problem. Instead, it believes consultation and cooperation to enhance law enforcement is the way to tackle the issue.

    This round of US accusations against China is nothing new as the country has been regularly targeted as the home of hackers in recent years. But with the so-called China cybersabotage and espionage continuing to make headlines in the US media this week, one cannot help but ask the real purpose of such a hullabaloo.

    With the US economic recovery dragging its feet, it is reasonable to think that some in Washington may want to make China a scapegoat so that the public's attention is diverted away from the country's domestic woes.

    The Pentagon's plans to expand its Cyber Command, as revealed by the US media recently, might also shed some light on the myth. The Washington Post reported last month that the Pentagon had decided to expand Cyber Command's current staffing level of 900 to 4,900 in the coming years. Apart from protecting national computer systems, the missions of the command also include executing attacks and other offensive operations.

    Interestingly, when the Cyber Command was established two years ago, the US played the same card.

    Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that by whipping up cybersabotage by China time and time again the US is just using it to develop its own cyber force. "

    No, China isn't blaming anyone at all.
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  3. #13

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    ClosedCasket is right - it is more than just one level.

    I'd characterize it this way:

    1. The hacking threats to steal intellectual property is the most immediate concern as this stuff can be put to use in the thief's country and businesses.

    2. Setting up to be able in a war situation to shut down another country's systems and to prevent your country from attack is another level much like the arms race was to be a deterrent to either side during the Cold War.

    This one is hard to argue against as if one side isn't ready and the other side is - you have a clear superior power and you get the competitive build up.

    3. Espionage/spying relative to state secrets. This has been done by the major powers for centuries only now instead of hookers, money and blackmail, they'll use computers.

    The US beef with China is the hacking of business as well as spying. Now assuming a nation is preparing to be on the ready, I guess you will see more and more of this.

    As to China's denials the person making them in public might likely not even be in the loop as to what secret group is doing much like the CIA did many things the US gov't had no idea they were doing and in Canada it was the same when the Security Service of the RCMP engaged in illegal activities such as barn burnings and spying on Canadians. Now they moved that to a new agency.

    We might also start to see a lot of outsourcing of this stuff as well to other countries if that is not done now.

    We might also see terrorist organizations getting in on the action as it is harder to get some idiot wanting 10,000 virgins in the afterlife to get into a US flying school to learn how to fly the plane without ever taking landing or take off lessons.

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  4. #14

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    When will China realise that it cannot sustain growth in its economy by stealing the ideas/designs/technology of overseas companies? At some point, it really has to put a concerted effort into its own R&D.

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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    Dude, you're as bad as the tabloids!!!

    Basically, let's support the USA, no matter what they do......if China do it, it's wrong....

    If that's what you believe, just say it.....it's the bullshit that annoys me....

    Just to clarify:

    "Not all hacking is equal."

    USA hacking = good
    China hacking = bad
    I was playing a multiplayer game on Chinese New Year in the US server the other day. I messaged "Happy Chinese New Year!" to people at the beginning of the game. My response back was, "We don't celebrate terrorist's holiday"
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  6. #16

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    Oh, I should add, I'm not being anti Chinese in this. I am pretty sure the US, along with probably every country in the world is doing a bunch of hacking.

    dear giant likes this.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    ClosedCasket is right - it is more than just one level.

    I'd characterize it this way:

    1. The hacking threats to steal intellectual property is the most immediate concern as this stuff can be put to use in the thief's country and businesses.

    2. Setting up to be able in a war situation to shut down another country's systems and to prevent your country from attack is another level much like the arms race was to be a deterrent to either side during the Cold War.

    This one is hard to argue against as if one side isn't ready and the other side is - you have a clear superior power and you get the competitive build up.

    3. Espionage/spying relative to state secrets. This has been done by the major powers for centuries only now instead of hookers, money and blackmail, they'll use computers.

    The US beef with China is the hacking of business as well as spying. Now assuming a nation is preparing to be on the ready, I guess you will see more and more of this.

    As to China's denials the person making them in public might likely not even be in the loop as to what secret group is doing much like the CIA did many things the US gov't had no idea they were doing and in Canada it was the same when the Security Service of the RCMP engaged in illegal activities such as barn burnings and spying on Canadians. Now they moved that to a new agency.

    We might also start to see a lot of outsourcing of this stuff as well to other countries if that is not done now.

    We might also see terrorist organizations getting in on the action as it is harder to get some idiot wanting 10,000 virgins in the afterlife to get into a US flying school to learn how to fly the plane without ever taking landing or take off lessons.
    Good points. Still, I think we should'nt get stuck on the point of whether China or US is "good or bad" or "right or wrong" in this hacking business. In international politics, morality is of little relevance by itself, what is important is power and how to get (and keep) it. No nation-state are angels. (So Chinese denial is perfectly logical, first rule of spying, deny there is spying. You would'nt actually expect the Chinese to say out-loud they hack the US now would they?)

    China is doing this to enhance their security and strength vs a vs the US. They cannot compete with the US directly militarily and wants a short cut around technology embargos by the US to gain access to their cutting-edge technology.

    The US has proposed imposing sanctions on entities and individuals it suspect of hacking (http://www.scmagazine.com/us-may-rel...rticle/281203/). But the question is, how successful will this be? In the 90's the US was successful in stopping China from exporting missiles to rogue states by sanctions. But today the situation is not that simple anymore. The playing field is not so skew towards the US. China has bargaining chips of it's own now. So we can see a tit-for-tat escalation until someone blinks (but the cost on both sides will be high). Or there can be face-saving compromise behind the scenes. The logical solution will be the latter but the first case is also a distinct possibility.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 21-02-2013 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    When will China realise that it cannot sustain growth in its economy by stealing the ideas/designs/technology of overseas companies? At some point, it really has to put a concerted effort into its own R&D.
    If they don't see a downside, why would they stop? You must impose cost on China's action for them to change behaviour. And even then, it may not be effective. China may calculate they still stand more to gain by hacking despite punishment imposed on them.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creative83:
    I was playing a multiplayer game on Chinese New Year in the US server the other day. I messaged "Happy Chinese New Year!" to people at the beginning of the game. My response back was, "We don't celebrate terrorist's holiday"
    See? dear giant liked this post.

    The level of severity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    When will China realise that it cannot sustain growth in its economy by stealing the ideas/designs/technology of overseas companies? At some point, it really has to put a concerted effort into its own R&D.
    Yeah, I mean just look at Hong Kong. World class level when it comes to stealing ideas. Look at the pover... oh wait.
    Last edited by Creative83; 21-02-2013 at 02:22 PM.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    Oh, I should add, I'm not being anti Chinese in this. I am pretty sure the US, along with probably every country in the world is doing a bunch of hacking.

    Honestly, the Russians and Isrealis are probaly the best at it.......