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An accidental bit of honesty in China...

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  1. #1

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    An accidental bit of honesty in China...

    So CCTV run an annual consumer show where they call out companies for bad service. On Friday night, they had a go at Apple and Volkswagen - specifically Apple for providing a lower quality of aftersales service/support, and/or charging more that they do elsewhere in the world. After the show was on, a debate ensued online, as happens nowadays in China, with locals laying into Apple for treating China as a second-class market, including some well-known or famous people with a lot of followers online.

    One of whom appears to have left the "To publish around 8:20pm" message in their post, a stage instruction to make sure they didn't post their anti-Apple rant too early - presumably a rant which was pre-written and provided for them.

    But of course, these bursts of outrage in China - at anything foreign, anything but the CCP - are never manufactured, are they?

    Does this SCMP-paywall-bypass work?

    elle, dengxi and dear giant like this.

  2. #2

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    Slightly off-topic, but from the article...

    In a blog titled “CCTV, you are no longer qualified to talk morals to me,” outspoken writer Li Chengpeng wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Li Chengpeng:
    “CCTV, you are blind to Chinese children being attacked at schools, but you see school massacres abroad; you never criticise fake elections at home, but always report shoe-throwings in foreign parliaments; you don’t pressure officials to disclose their assets at home, but you are so excited when a foreign official gets caught drinking a bottle of wine paid by taxpayers’ money.
    Reminds me of the folks on here whose sole retort to the news of gummint (CCP) evils is to point out evidence of the same happening everywhere else. In other words echoing the sentiments of CCTV.
    dear giant and hullexile like this.

  3. #3

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    I have been noticing both CCTV stories and Chinese media stories taking quite a twist lately and featuring citizens holding business and local gov'ts to account. Knowing that the PRC don't do things without a clear purpose I think it has become a realization that their corruption problems and bad service problems run so deep that no amount of gov't resources will stop it quickly.

    The first story was how the public stopped the shipment of dogs for slaughter on the highway north of Beijing on the way to Harbin to be prepped for dinner. It went on for a day and a half IIRC. The officials seemed to be on the side of the citizens who blogged and got experts out. They showed a local uniformed official say the papers were all correct (they were) and how they'd have to have a reason to stop this like proof there were sick dogs and a health risk. This guy put a time limit on the impasse all being filmed by CCTV. This allowed some vets to get there and test and bingo they found a serious disease and halted the shipment. The story credited the teamwork of the bloggers and people. Even the truck driver seemed so sedate about it - it looked to all part of a documentary.

    Then the grandpas story. They and the print media showed this group of retirees who IIRC took on a bus company that was charging too much on short journeys. They got the evidence and forced local officials to fix it. Then they heard of extra 'voluntary' charges in restaurants for sanitary utensils and then filmed how they would nicely go in and name and shame. The big coup was that three gas companies had one meter to the buildings and everyone paid the same. They got the evidence and forced local gov't to act on it with sub meters added.

    The moral of these stories seems to be - citizens should do this properly and take the evidence to gov't and force them to act on it. If I can find the links I will try and add these.

    If you think about it is recognizing that gov't is not solving this shit by themselves. This is contrary to what happened from Reagan on where we in the west no longer help to ensure consumer groups are strong. They are just too underfunded to speak out when gov'ts in Canada give them grants the auditing costs are so great most groups now don't money.


  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought:
    Slightly off-topic, but from the article...

    In a blog titled “CCTV, you are no longer qualified to talk morals to me,” outspoken writer Li Chengpeng wrote:



    Reminds me of the folks on here whose sole retort to the news of gummint (CCP) evils is to point out evidence of the same happening everywhere else. In other words echoing the sentiments of CCTV.
    Actually for those of us from other countries we need to get our heads out of our asses as our gov'ts are screwing us all the while decrying the horrible stuff in commie countries like the PRC.

    Too many post how bad the PRC (while living here) and seem to think their nations back home aren't doing the same things to its people.

    Those who point out the bad in the PRC rarely point out the positives that at least their gov't's statement of the issues are REAL. Not the fantasy we get from our gov'ts back home. They say one thing and do another!

    I am in the camp of the ilk of GE's Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt who is a GOPer but Obama's job tzar who says this about the PRC:

    "the one thing that actually works, you know, state run communism may not be your cup of tea, but their government works. They have five-year plans"
    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...te-jeff-immelt

    This is not the best clip but he has said that the problem with the USA and he uses the Obama high speed rail idea is that his business (be builds locomotive engines) is that they can't build a plant in the USA for that as it might not happen whereas he has the GE people assessing China's 5 yr plans as he says - 'they actually do it.'

    It is not to defend all things PRC but to look at our countries with some balance and actual insights into the good and the bad.

    If anyone in the west thinks their gov'ts are great these days they need to give their heads a shake. It is very serious in the west as gov'ts are failing to prep their people for the economy of today.

  5. #5

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    It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of the west or what happens in gummints back home. It's piss easy to point at everything that is wrong with every other system of gummint - that approach would make the CCP look like a great idea.

    The SAR gummint doesn't have to be like anything in the west, but in its current form it is doing more damage long term because there is an absence of accountability. Now nobody needs to hear anything about how there isn't accountability in the west, because it makes no difference out here.

    People here have only just started making a noise about nepotism, gummint/industry collusion and real estate development cartels and it's keeping the gummint on its toes (not necessarily honest, but a little more careful) but even that does little to effect the kind of change needed to bring about some real progress because there is no real concern that they will be voted out of office if they don't - and so it becomes a game of stalling, all the while blaming the pan-democrats for holding up the development of Hong Kong. What the ruling elite wants is carte blanche which is authoritarian as the highest officials weren't elected.

    Somewhere in the middle a balance has to be found between appeasing the CCP and serving the interests of Hong Kong.

    dear giant likes this.

  6. #6

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    Anyone else find the word 'gummint' annoying?


  7. #7

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    unintelligent buttoxes


  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Actually for those of us from other countries we need to get our heads out of our asses as our gov'ts are screwing us all the while decrying the horrible stuff in commie countries like the PRC.

    Too many post how bad the PRC (while living here) and seem to think their nations back home aren't doing the same things to its people.

    Those who point out the bad in the PRC rarely point out the positives that at least their gov't's statement of the issues are REAL. Not the fantasy we get from our gov'ts back home. They say one thing and do another!
    This is called "whataboutery" and it is a very effective, if totally illogical, method of argument. I would venture to guess that most people voicing concern about the policies of the PRC/HK and not about their home countries do so because they live here.
    dear giant likes this.

  9. #9

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    Lootoo rising to new levels of obsfucation and circular reasoning. You must be getting both gun money, insurance money and and CIA funding. You are good despite misusing the term "whataboutery" which is what you want me to point out so you can deflect things away from where your masters want you to go.

    Honestly 50,000 thousand Chinese bloggers don't have the same impact as you with your ability to raise red herrings and obsfucate any sane line of reasoning.

    The global economy is so intertwined that what one nation does affects others. It doesn't matter where you live. Impacts are felt all over the world. That includes policies that give Homeland Security access to any data on US soil. That poses risks that your pals at the gun lobby keep talking about. As a matter of fact - huge ones for Canadians with free trade and US firms with our information including some with medical, financial, insurance. If you do nothing wrong - that is fine - but the new laws in the US allow them to not even charge you but hold you now.

    The global world is so intertwined and it doesn't matter where you live - it can affect your businesses and you personally.

    It would be nice to see the PRC haters follow the lead of former US Treas Secy who says the Chinese always get the economic policies right - it just is not on the US timing. The past 3 years the US has been onto China about the currency and the development of an internal economy as this will benefit the US as they see new business opportunities in China.

    We all know China is too paranoid about the loss of harmony and worry about instability so they round up those who piss them off. But they do some things very well and we in the west could actually learn from that.

    GE CEO - the job tsar for the USA is building in China as he trusts the Chinese gov't to do what they say whereas in the USA he can't. Obama will never get his super speed railways but what China says they will do means that GE can trust them and take the risk to build plants in China. Immelt by the way is no commie but a Republican. Even he can get his head out of his ass.

    Last edited by Football16; 18-03-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Actually for those of us from other countries we need to get our heads out of our asses as our gov'ts are screwing us all the while decrying the horrible stuff in commie countries like the PRC.

    Too many post how bad the PRC (while living here) and seem to think their nations back home aren't doing the same things to its people.

    Those who point out the bad in the PRC rarely point out the positives that at least their gov't's statement of the issues are REAL. Not the fantasy we get from our gov'ts back home. They say one thing and do another!

    I am in the camp of the ilk of GE's Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt who is a GOPer but Obama's job tzar who says this about the PRC:



    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...te-jeff-immelt

    This is not the best clip but he has said that the problem with the USA and he uses the Obama high speed rail idea is that his business (be builds locomotive engines) is that they can't build a plant in the USA for that as it might not happen whereas he has the GE people assessing China's 5 yr plans as he says - 'they actually do it.'

    It is not to defend all things PRC but to look at our countries with some balance and actual insights into the good and the bad.

    If anyone in the west thinks their gov'ts are great these days they need to give their heads a shake. It is very serious in the west as gov'ts are failing to prep their people for the economy of today.


    You must also remember that you are judging China during a period of maximum pent up growth. Due to a century of virtual inactivity (relative to the west) China is now exploding onto the scene. Any government could look good during this period...even in spite of massive corruption, bribery, cronyism and nepotism.

    What happens when growth slows or contracts?
    dear giant likes this.

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