China sends in the clowns

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by chimo:
    Then some Tibetans protested...
    You have got to be kidding...I sincerely hope you are not making light of what Tibetans have been through...else shame, shame on you.

    This was ALWAYS going to happen. The world is merely acting as it always does in the lead up to the Olympic games. It is a platform to highlight whatever "problems" other countries have with the hosting nation. This happens EVERY Olympic games.

    skyhook - hear hear on Rudd...about time too...

  2. #12

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    Kevin Rudd has actually directly engaged Beijing about the Tibet issue.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55M_LN-BNF4]YouTube - China resolute on Tibet: PM[/ame]


    And for those who understand Mandarin, this was a lengthy interview aired on CCTV just before he was elected PM. Its all Mandarin from about the 3 minute mark.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO0dt7dQmh8"]YouTube - Kevin Rudd Mandarin interview, full-length (part 1)[/ame]

    Last edited by Skyhook; 25-04-2008 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Doe's China see itself as a member of the international community ?
    Yes.....but only when it's beneficial to China.

    Although that could be said of US as well.

    I completely agree with assessment that the current mess China finds themselves in is completely their own doing. They wanted the Olympics for the positive spotlight to show off the new economic might built on the bones of sweat shops and near slave like labor. However, when it came time to handle a bit of criticism, they didn't have a thick enough skin and resorted to the age old totalitarian method of crushing uprisings and criticisms though brutal force and further oppression and censorship.

    Western media is a whore...everyone knows that. The news aren't "Truth" but sensationalism made to boost ratings and sell air time. However, although they have morons like Jack Cafferty who like to run their mouths, at least they have the right to free speech and not face the retaliation of their government for speaking their minds.

    When it comes down to it, that's the real difference.
    Last edited by climber07; 25-04-2008 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #14

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    I am not sure how would call Rudd one of the best PMs since Menzies - although there haven't been that many anyway, he has only been PM for 6 months. Aside from "Kyoto" and "Sorry" (two easy points), nothing has been done by him - lets not even start of the 2020 Summit. I just want to give him some time to prove his worth.

    Yes, China is not making itself look good in the eyes of the world. Tibet is just one of many things that is harming its reputation. There are many other human rights violations inside China. The Olympics directly effected housing rights, or lack thereof, of people living on the sites where the Olympic Games are to be held. We could go on and on. I can't think of a country that doesn't have some protests against it for some reason or another.

    I have to have a bit of a chuckle at protests by Chinese about CNN, especially the way one CNN presenter/report/commentator referred to the Chinese Government. Don't they ever watch CNN - CNN critisize the USA administration and their own President worse occassionally. In the USA there is free speech, thankfully.

    I hate to think of what the Chinese Government would do if there was someone like Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart in their country. I suppose, the point being is that there never would be.


  5. #15

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    been reading articles and wondering why pro chinese supporters have been called "nationalists". but if an american waves the american flag, they're called "patriotic"... two very different words evoking different feelings describing the same thing... the west knows how to use words that are seemingly nonbiased, but has undertones - just like chinese media use chinese words.


  6. #16

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    fyi , the dalai lama was essentially running tibet like a monarchy when he was in rule... so don't blame him for being pissed at china, basically he lost his throne. I do believe china should talk to the Dlama, but really to ensure a stable country and growth. the Dlama has not step foot in china for the last 50 years, he has not seen ANY of the progress that happened since he left - i don't think anyone can say there's been NO progress... as a marketing guy, i'm a firm believer of "know your market before speaking for it"... the DLama is totally out of touch already...

    The west has ZERO right to 'urge' the talks since it's really none of their business. don't know who this aussie PM is (sorry) but he seems more open minded than other leaders - hey he bothered to learn mandarin... probably better than mine :-)


  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by goleoboy:
    been reading articles and wondering why pro chinese supporters have been called "nationalists". but if an american waves the american flag, they're called "patriotic"... two very different words evoking different feelings describing the same thing... the west knows how to use words that are seemingly nonbiased, but has undertones - just like chinese media use chinese words.
    There are without a doubt many, many many things wrong with America. From the lack education, strength of religious fanatics / creationism movement, health care....etc....I could go on for years. Indeed it is true that many of the flag waiving Americans are very much nationalistic bigots.

    However, I will tell you mine definition between Patriotism and Nationalism:

    "Patriot" is someone, when given a choice, , choses to truly love, serve and support his/ her country for the betterment of it's citizens (often through selfless acts). (i.e. in the words of JFK - "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!"

    "Nationalist" is someone who is determined to achieve unity, independence, and often domination of his/her nation at any cost. Nationalistic movements are typical under regimes which allow no other choice (i.e. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union / Russia, etc). When you can't criticize your government or face retaliation, your only choice is to support it and "try to Make it great". Thus making the Superiority and ambition as no real other choices exist.

    Thus, in my book, it's the fact that that flag waiving American has a choice to burn it and piss on it (along with the photo of the president) in front of the White House, but yet choses to waive it.....is what makes him a Patriot rather than a Nationalist.

    Now go get your "I Love China" or "China Wins" t-shits, I heard they're selling like hotcakes. Giordano has an advert in today's local newspaper, their new Patriotic shirts will go on sale May 1 (May Day). I'd get in the queue now

  8. #18

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    I too have found myself disturbingly amused by the Chinese handling of the Olympics.

    If the torch bearers were armed with lighters to relight the torch (symbolizing the persistence of the spirit of international co-operation maybe?) then this whole fiasco would have been so much less impressive.

    The idea that a foreign government can send in mercenaries to harass or intimidate citizens of another country (and don't even get me started on boycotts of French goods) is frankly disgusting.

    But express these opinions as a local Chinese person and you are labeled a traitor. Freedom of speech is such a wonderful thing isn't it? You can say whatever you want as long as its exactly the same as what I think...


  9. #19

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    When the US president travels ... the Secret Service takes over protection from the local agencies.

    Why arent the Chinese allowed to protect the torch?


  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnowItAll:
    When the US president travels ... the Secret Service takes over protection from the local agencies.

    Why arent the Chinese allowed to protect the torch?
    Because the repercussions from an dead head of state are a little more serious than a doused fire-stick?

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