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China's 6 Wars in the next 50 Years

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  1. #111
    ouwen
    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    First hit on Google is this: http://www.interaksyon.com/article/5...ed-territories

    All over the news in Asia at the time.
    That's not the Viet Nam / Malasia / Phils limits we were discussing.

    But this is even more interesting, and very confusing. The documents I read say that there is no legal process or tribunal. They only said that any objection to another country's claim simply halts consideration of that claim, and no line of maritime delimitation can be drawn.

    This is confusing and will take a lot more research. I hope some of you will keep the thread going in this direction, and we can gain some understanding of what the hell is going on here

    it's a bit much for me to keep up on, especially from here in the US where everyone seems oblivious to these world shaking events.

    Thanks for coming into the discussion JayKay

  2. #112

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    As far as I can see those submissions have nothing to do with phils. the discussion was about the dispute between china and phils. as far as I am aware phils has notified the UN it will be filing a case in March and china has refused to do so but has sent its aircraft carrier. china has also started drilling and has blocked off access to the shoal. Which side is going through the diplomatic channels and which is trying to provoke military action. as a peace lover I am sure you will condemn chinas actions


  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Your point seems confused. Some posts you state that the 'nationalisation' of some the islands changed the status quo and caused offence while others you say it doesn't matter.

    Some of the islands were already owned by the government and that was not 'more' offensive (no protest by the CCP) so aligning the ownership was surely not really a radical change of the status quo and the purchase by the central government was seen as a positive step towards minimising the potential of issues by the international community with the exception of China.


    Japan does not have the right to enforce the way China is seen by the international community. The way the CCP reacts publicly to very minor regional changes is in the control of the CCP and the CCP does a very good jobs of making sure the Chinese public and the world know what they believe people should think (unfortunately the Chinese public are not able to have free and easy access to information to allow a more balanced view).
    I meant that it doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is what Beijing thinks is is tantamount to changing the status quo. We can all say whether move X or Y justifies China's action or not, but ultimately, those are moot points. It may not seem like a radical change to us, but for Beijing, with their nationalism and opaque decision-making, it may very well be. However strange it may seem to us, for them and their world view, that nationalization by Japan may be the straw that broke the camel's back, so-to-speak. If Beijing thinks nationalization, regardless of how little it actually changed things on the ground, does changes the status quo for them, then that is what matters.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 08-12-2013 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #114

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    Ouwen I am intrigued by your character:

    - you are a peace activist who hates the american govt but enrolled in the military

    - an anarchist who can not say a bad word about the chinese govt

    - a genius whose knowledge of biology seems to be at the level of the ancient greeks

    - someone who has held important positions in the military and the private sector requiring critical thinking but accepts a romantic view of the celts

    - a peace activist who switches in a second to aggresion (no one insulted your wife)

    We are all complex but you more than most


  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watercooler:
    I meant that it doesn't matter what you think
    Thank you for telling me. What the international community thinks is probably more important than what the CCP thinks.


    So in essence every totalitarian regime doesn't have to care what people think of their actions and they also usually end badly...

    As with the Senkuka/Diaoyu Islands where China are the 3rd nearest country they also claim the Socotra Rock where Korea and Japan are nearer (rather than Japan and Taiwan)



    What justification is there for this aggressive stance?
    Last edited by East_coast; 08-12-2013 at 10:16 PM.
    Azuremain likes this.

  6. #116
    ouwen
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Ouwen I am intrigued by your character:

    - you are a peace activist who hates the american govt but enrolled in the military

    - an anarchist who can not say a bad word about the chinese govt

    - a genius whose knowledge of biology seems to be at the level of the ancient greeks

    - someone who has held important positions in the military and the private sector requiring critical thinking but accepts a romantic view of the celts

    - a peace activist who switches in a second to aggresion (no one insulted your wife)

    We are all complex but you more than most

    All quite true. I have an inquisitive and analytical mind that is highly intolerant of those who hide thier laziness and avoidance of mental activity with stupid, condescending and/or insulting remarks.

    Live with it.

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Thank you for telling me. What the international community thinks is probably more important than what the CCP thinks.


    So in essence every totalitarian regime doesn't have to care what people think of their actions and they also usually end badly...

    As with the Senkuka/Diaoyu Islands where China are the 3rd nearest country they also claim the Socotra Rock where Korea and Japan are nearer (rather than Japan and Taiwan)



    What justification is there for this aggressive stance?

    No justification. As China grows in power, I would expect more and more of this. If I were neighboring countries I would be very concerned. China has "border disputes" with all of its neighboring countries + 8 others.

  8. #118
    ouwen
    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Thank you for telling me. What the international community thinks is probably more important than what the CCP thinks.


    So in essence every totalitarian regime doesn't have to care what people think of their actions and they also usually end badly...

    As with the Senkuka/Diaoyu Islands where China are the 3rd nearest country they also claim the Socotra Rock where Korea and Japan are nearer (rather than Japan and Taiwan)



    What justification is there for this aggressive stance?

    No justification is needed. Any dispute brought forth does not have to have even the slightest basis in reality. The simple fact that a dispute exists halts all consideration of an involved countries application for determination of maritime limits. That is the whimsical and toothless nature of the UN rules.

    Japan stopped China's, and Korea's applications in this manner. This could be China's retaliation that stops any consideration of an application by Japan (and Korea) for determination of maritime limits.

    If said rock is submerged, it can't be used as a base line for maritime limits, so it is of no importance whatsoever, unless some country is trying to claim that it is an island. If China make that claim, Japan, Korea or China can't draw maritime limits, because a dispute exists.

    The East China sea natural resources remain without an owner, and subject only to enforcement by military domination/force. Advantage goes to the most militarily aggressive nation or alliance of nations, assuming WWIII does not rid the Earth of human pestilence.
    Last edited by ouwen; 09-12-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  9. #119
    ouwen
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Ouwen I am intrigued by your character:

    - you are a peace activist who hates the american govt but enrolled in the military
    Would it make sense to you that a peace activist with a genius IQ just sit idle and wait to be drafted into an infantry unit to kill people like you with a rifle? I would have just stood there and been killed before I would kill another human being.

    I used my IQ score to bargain with the US Navy for a non killing tech position that included highly advanced technical training.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    - an anarchist who can not say a bad word about the chinese govt
    The Chinese people are my friends. I like them very much, and married one of them. I try not to interfere in, or judge their domestic politics. My only concern with the Chinese govt is in foreign affairs that might involve war.

    "The People's Liberation Army will not deploy troops outside of China, except as UN peace keepers". China's reply to a US request for China's participation in the war on terror.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    - a genius whose knowledge of biology seems to be at the level of the ancient greeks
    So, having a genius level IQ means that I was born with a degree in Biology? How do I respond to such a stupid comment? The US Government determined that my intelligence is concentrated in mechanical and mathematical ability. They did not waste a million dollars training me in biology, or basket weaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    - someone who has held important positions in the military and the private sector requiring critical thinking but accepts a romantic view of the celts
    The Celts were not the only highly successful anarchic society that preceeded the proliferation of empire building by the Romans, Anglo Saxons and Americans. They are the only one that I studied. My military and energy company employers paid for any and all studies that I wanted to pursue in technology.

    History was on my own time and expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    - a peace activist who switches in a second to aggresion (no one insulted your wife)
    I respond to stupidity in kind. I have been baited by the best of CIA trained trolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    We are all complex but you more than most
    Thank you.
    Last edited by ouwen; 09-12-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #120
    ouwen
    Original Post Deleted
    I do not participate in domestic Chinese politics. I don't live in China, and have no related knowledge.

    What post or comment are your referring to? Do you have a link or reference to justify that name calling?

    I will give you a reasonable time to respond before complaining to the moderator.