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China Olympics wrap up

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  1. #11

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    Wholsome, I agree with much of your position. The only thing is I don't think anyone expected to grant their citizens total freedom but I do think we had expectations that if they said they were going to grant their people the right to protest, just one example, that they would. Instead they turned it into a farce, first insisting that a permit be attained to protest then denying approval of any permits!

    I absolutely agree that China is not a place where democracy should be interested at break neck speed, if ever. There are just too many people who have been told for too long what to think, feel and do. It will end up like India, a giant mess! I do believe however that more should be done and can easily be done to look after the people who have arguably made that country great.


  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK:

    Our requirements are the same from host city to host city, and have remained unchanged since the IOC entered into the Host City Contract with Beijing in 2001.etc. "

    They supposedly signed an agreement to all of the above, though of course, it is not in the public domain unlike other agreements signed by Olympic hosts before them.
    Exactly. The requirements are the same from city to city. The other bidding cities would have agreed to the same requirements (whether they were foregone conclusions or not), and they still lost. So obviously it was MORE than the promises that won them the bid. Of course they were going to sign the agreement if that's what it took to have a chance (no matter what they REALLY ended up doing or not doing).

    Remember, they barely lost to Sydney 2000, and with the Olympics in Atlanta in 96, Salt Lake in 2002, Athens in 2004, and Torino in 2006, NA and Europe were effectively out of the running. 2008 was always going to China.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK:
    Wholsome, I agree with much of your position. The only thing is I don't think anyone expected to grant their citizens total freedom but I do think we had expectations that if they said they were going to grant their people the right to protest, just one example, that they would. Instead they turned it into a farce, first insisting that a permit be attained to protest then denying approval of any permits!

    I absolutely agree that China is not a place where democracy should be interested at break neck speed, if ever. There are just too many people who have been told for too long what to think, feel and do. It will end up like India, a giant mess! I do believe however that more should be done and can easily be done to look after the people who have arguably made that country great.
    SpecialK, totally concur with you too. Cheers!

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    Exactly. The requirements are the same from city to city. The other bidding cities would have agreed to the same requirements (whether they were foregone conclusions or not), and they still lost. So obviously it was MORE than the promises that won them the bid. Of course they were going to sign the agreement if that's what it took to have a chance (no matter what they REALLY ended up doing or not doing).
    This is just delusional. China has a horrific human rights track record. That is why they didn't get the Sydney Olympics - remember Tianimen Square? Their promises to improve were very much a part of their win to host this year. You cannot promise one thing and then not only NOT deliver, but actually go backwards.

    It is clear that you think it is not immoral to sign a contract with the clear intention of not living up to the contents. It is one thing to say something and do something else but to put it into writing is another thing.

  5. #15

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    of course i remember Tiannanmen Square as I'm sure every IOC voting member did...how does that explain Beijing winning EVERY round of bidding for 2000 except the final round, where they lost by 2 votes to Sydney?

    then of course, came the news that Sydney bought a significant number of votes to secure the win....to counteract the votebuying by China!! Thats how this process works!

    Sydney revelations deepen Olympics corruption scandal

    i'm not sure where in my posts i stated so clearly my view on the morality of signing a contract blah blah blah, but i seems you prefer jumping to conclusions rather than considering any possibilities other than your own...i choose not to take a PollyAnnaic viewpoint on matters with such obvious political and economic impact...maybe, just maybe, the IOC is not the group of angels you believe them to be, hoping to change the world through the Olympic Ideal...they are after all politicians to a degree, some from less than squeaky clean countries, who have proven suceptible to bribery for heavens sake!

    to put it more plainly, yes, human rights violations are terrible, and SHOULD be considered when awarding the Games to a host city. However, in my opinion (different as it may be from yours), at the end of the day, the Olympics bidding/hosting process is about money, whether its going into the pockets of a voting member in a backroom, or flowing from a TV exec. in a multi-billion dollar deal...if we really want human rights to be a deciding factor, give Amnesty Intl. the ultimate vote in who gets the games

    Last edited by timklip; 12-09-2008 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #16

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    Actually, despite China still having a "poor" Human Right Track record, they do have improved compare to the end of the 90's.

    So the question is more on how much the West expected them to improve and how far they felt short....good luck with that.

    I wish London good luck for 2012 and thanks China again for some wonderful moments and some great Games: The Bird's Nest, The Water Cube, Phelps, Bolt, Guo Jin Jin, Liu Xiang, Lin Dan, the romanian marathon winner, Bekele, Beijing blue sky...some great images, stories and moments!


  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    However, in my opinion (different as it may be from yours), at the end of the day, the Olympics bidding/hosting process is about money, whether its going into the pockets of a voting member in a backroom, or flowing from a TV exec. in a multi-billion dollar deal...if we really want human rights to be a deciding factor, give Amnesty Intl. the ultimate vote in who gets the games
    Frankly, it's disingenuous to judge whether the games were successful or not on China's human rights record...

    The fact that they didn't let the games be drowned in protest most likely made the games better and I doubt that the IOC is very concerned about that.

    The bottom line is that China did what they set out do do. They put on a great show with lots of world records, they performed well and topped the gold medal table. The pollution wasn't as bad as it had been in the past and there weren't too many complaints by athletes and the traffic was managed adequately.

    In my book, that means that they met the most important objectives of the games...

  8. #18

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    this thread is more about China living up to the 'promises' they made re human rights in order to secure the Games, rather than 'were the games a success on every level including human rights issues'...i didn't judge China's performance in hosting the games at all (tho now that you mention it I'd give them top marks for everything I saw (albeit on TV only)...great ceremonies, performances, nice to see the pride of the Chinese in their athletes, pollution was acceptable..all the things you've mentioned.)


  9. #19

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    It would have been nice if say the measures used to tackle pollution were longer term, rather than just long enough for it to look good on tv and for the athletes not to protest. Taking extreme and very last minute measures, like limiting people to driving every second day, is rather disengenous. I would love to have seen them do something that will actually better the living, or in this case, breathing conditions of the people.

    As for the actual event, stadiums etc, totally amazing. It's a wonder though that they could pull off such a feat and not put on any decent food in the arenas. It was shameful.


  10. #20

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    For holding a well-organised and spectacular event, China did great! As for human rights, or the lack thereof, it might only be as expected from a country which less than two decades ago had tanks on the streets mowing down its citizens.