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South China Sea 2015

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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    Best choice, no one can may claim it for 500 years. Hopefully the human race by then is more civil and mostly equal.
    Unfortunately states are claiming it and some are being more aggressive than others in their approach. The issue surely is not the overlapping claims but the methodologies that are being used to stoke up nationalism, artificially reclaim islands and treat them as sovereign land, sinking fishing boats, conducting live round training drills, drill for hydrocarbons etc.

    Again, the overlapping claims are not the issue. The use of aggressive tactics and stirring up nationalistic vitriol is the issue. This is predominantly being done buy one of the claimants and this is the issue.

    Do you condemn the use of excessively aggressive actions and the stoking of nationalistic hatred within some of the claimant countries?
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  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    There is a map which shows each country with their normal coastal waters and a lump in the middle which is left as international waters. This seems the obvious solution but China has rejected it as they are insisting on all waters and islands in all of the South China Sea up to a few miles of all other countries. None of the countries can possibly accept this, no country in the world would. Until China is willing to constructively approach the issue we are looking at edging towards war. A war in my opinion totally of China's making. The building of the artificial islands to support military bases is so provocative that part of me thinks that the intention is to trigger a war perhaps to give them a cover to invade Taiwan.
    I think that's a bit far fetched. Trigger war to invade Taiwan. Maybe you are right, maybe not.
    (You do know this kinda falls under the conspriracy theorie don't you?)

  3. #113

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    All the US is doing is showing China that they don't own the South China Sea. Sorry China, you might be able to bully Vietnam & the Philipines but it's not going to work against the US. You can talk tough all you want, but we all know the South China Sea is international waters and the USA won't let you steal it.


    Last edited by Open Casket; 30-10-2015 at 09:55 PM.
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  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Casket:
    All the US is doing is showing China that they don't own the South China Sea. Sorry China, you might be able to bully Vietnam & the Philipines but it's not going to work against the US. You can talk tough all you want, but we all know the South China Sea is international waters and the USA won't let you steal it.


    Eh? The USA had it's ass handed to it in Korea and Vietnam...China vs. USA on China's turf...you've got to be an American to even imagine winning that one.

  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Unfortunately states are claiming it and some are being more aggressive than others in their approach. The issue surely is not the overlapping claims but the methodologies that are being used to stoke up nationalism, artificially reclaim islands and treat them as sovereign land, sinking fishing boats, conducting live round training drills, drill for hydrocarbons etc.

    Again, the overlapping claims are not the issue. The use of aggressive tactics and stirring up nationalistic vitriol is the issue. This is predominantly being done buy one of the claimants and this is the issue.

    Do you condemn the use of excessively aggressive actions and the stoking of nationalistic hatred within some of the claimant countries?
    any country will defend its sovereignty if possible. Even China. Is China's sovereignty being invaded? According to you that ain't the issue...

  6. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    I think that's a bit far fetched. Trigger war to invade Taiwan. Maybe you are right, maybe not.
    (You do know this kinda falls under the conspriracy theorie don't you?)
    Not really. How do you explain the building of artificial islands in the middle of the South China Sea. What do you think China thought the reaction would be? They must have thought it through, there must be an end plan.
    (1) no one will notice the building of artificial islands and military bases. Zero chance
    (2) we will build them and no one will care. Zero chance
    (3) they will care but do nothing. Little chance
    (4) they will do something but nothing serious. Probable
    (5) they will do something serious and we give way. Little chance
    (6) they will do something serious and we respond. War. Little but growing chance.

    I can't think of any other options and China must have thought of these before going ahead. Unless they were prepared to accept war as an outcome they would not have gone ahead.

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    any country will defend its sovereignty if possible. Even China. Is China's sovereignty being invaded? According to you that ain't the issue...
    How is China's sovereignty being invaded? International law clearly states underwater rocks do not possess territorial waters. China has said that it has not built these islands to claim territory.
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  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dashwood:
    Eh? The USA had it's ass handed to it in Korea and Vietnam...China vs. USA on China's turf...you've got to be an American to even imagine winning that one.
    A bloody draw I would guess, of course with plenty of innocent deaths. I could envisage other countries joining in. I hasten to add I still think this is a very small possibility.
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  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Not really. How do you explain the building of artificial islands in the middle of the South China Sea. What do you think China thought the reaction would be? They must have thought it through, there must be an end plan.
    (1) no one will notice the building of artificial islands and military bases. Zero chance
    (2) we will build them and no one will care. Zero chance
    (3) they will care but do nothing. Little chance
    (4) they will do something but nothing serious. Probable
    (5) they will do something serious and we give way. Little chance
    (6) they will do something serious and we respond. War. Little but growing chance.

    I can't think of any other options and China must have thought of these before going ahead. Unless they were prepared to accept war as an outcome they would not have gone ahead.
    Wait a minute. Are we still talking about mainlanders? Cut the line, piss and poo wherever they like, feed zoo animals even though the signs says: Don't feed the animals!, I wanted these in black, why did u manufactured it in blue Chinese people?
    I seriously don't think Chinese people that dumb can think of a plan so sophisticated.

    With all that China has been doing recently, it all shows that they would rather buy out the competition then to fight it. You have any idea how much effort it took to create the AIIB? They are surely not going to throw that away because of the idea of total domination through warfare...
    im sorry Hull, that is just too silly.

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    A bloody draw I would guess, of course with plenty of innocent deaths. I could envisage other countries joining in. I hasten to add I still think this is a very small possibility.
    Tiny. Can you imagine, seriously imagine, the USA going to war in this region again? I wish it wasn't true, but China has got the whole world by the balls. We (the west) are like the dirtiest junkies when it comes to China...piling on debt to get our precious cheap consumer goods. Give the kids a choice between affordable smartphones and giving a shit who owns some water in Asia...we care because we live in the region, nobody else gives a shit.

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