4 June censorship in China

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Politic is a past time for rich people...when they will reach a certain degree of development / maturity they will surely hve more time in their hands to seek for additionnal political debate etc etc....
    Same as Hong Kong. We aren't ready for full democracy yet are we...

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumbrake:
    Same as Hong Kong. We aren't ready for full democracy yet are we...
    Different.

    This is a matter of law and transition from a Colonial time to a new area.

    You also have to look at it in another way. If they do provide such "freedom" to HK, the mainland will increasingly (as it is developping and a middle/rich class is taking shape and increasing at a fast speed) seek for the same. The central gvt is simply not ready to handle such a push in China. As such they will try to slow this process down as much as possible here in HK.

    Btw, for at least half the population of HK, YES, they are more worried about the food they have to put on their table, than having the Universal Suffrage.

    Never forget that we are a small number of privileged people here who can spend time to debate on these issues. That said, and Pin is right, those issues have to be brought up and debatted. But never forget also where we come from / live.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Never forget that we are a small number of privileged people here who can spend time to debate on these issues.
    Apologies - politics ain't usually my cuppa tea (nor other similar "privileged" pursuits) lol...

    And, yeah, what the heck do I know...

    Sorry if I've rubbed ... the wrong way.

    Will just continue being a nice little "rich" "expat" -
    and shut me feckin' trap.


  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by emmie:
    Apologies - politics ain't usually my cuppa tea (nor other similar "privileged" pursuits) lol...

    And, yeah, what the heck do I know...

    Sorry if I've rubbed ... the wrong way.

    Will just continue being a nice little "rich" "expat" -
    and shut me feckin' trap.

    See, you distort my comment....last sentence was something along those lines: but we should bring up those issues and discuss them (keeping in mind tho, how privileged we are to do so).....never said you had to shut up. just brought another side to the debate

  5. #25

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    I think the argument that the poor are only looking to put food on the table and are not concerned about democracy is only put forward by either rich tycoons who don't want to give the masses any power as it would mean a loss of power for them (eg Hong Kong), or by one party states who would lose power if the masses could choose their government (eg China).


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumbrake:
    I think the argument that the poor are only looking to put food on the table and are not concerned about democracy is only put forward by either rich tycoons who don't want to give the masses any power as it would mean a loss of power for them (eg Hong Kong), or by one party states who would lose power if the masses could choose their government (eg China).
    Never said they were NOT concerned...just said they had more pressing concerns than democracy...can't speak for all, but for some people relatively not well off that I know of, democracy would be a nice thing to have but certainly not their main priority....

    As I said 2 times already, the issue has to be addressed and thanks PIN for launching the subject, but to keep things in perspective those parameters have to be acknowledge as well.....don't really see what is offensive or difficult to understand in my comments folks.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumbrake:
    I think the argument that the poor are only looking to put food on the table and are not concerned about democracy is only put forward by either rich tycoons who don't want to give the masses any power as it would mean a loss of power for them (eg Hong Kong), or by one party states who would lose power if the masses could choose their government (eg China).
    I disagree - it is a valid point. People need to meet their basic needs first. Political freedom is meaningless if you are starving. Our own societies did not develop universal suffrage until our countries had developed a good long way - let's face it, in the UK some women could not vote only 100 years ago.

    While there are many well off chinese in cities, if you spend some time in the countryside you see the opposite - it's a big country and there is some way to go yet.

    We need to set a good example of the benefits of democracy but not force it down people's throats. At the end of the day, the Chinese have valued harmony as a benefit to society for millenia - is it really our job to tell them that is wrong? Take a look at Singapore - not exactly fully democratic either, is it? But everyone seems pretty content.

    I'd like to see ordinary folks in China get access to media and for the truth about Tiananmen to come out - and then if they decide to ignore it, then that's their choice. It's their history after all. If they choose harmony, who's to say it's wrong for them.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    I disagree - it is a valid point. People need to meet their basic needs first. Political freedom is meaningless if you are starving. Our own societies did not develop universal suffrage until our countries had developed a good long way - let's face it, in the UK some women could not vote only 100 years ago.

    While there are many well off chinese in cities, if you spend some time in the countryside you see the opposite - it's a big country and there is some way to go yet.

    We need to set a good example of the benefits of democracy but not force it down people's throats. At the end of the day, the Chinese have valued harmony as a benefit to society for millenia - is it really our job to tell them that is wrong? Take a look at Singapore - not exactly fully democratic either, is it? But everyone seems pretty content.

    I'd like to see ordinary folks in China get access to media and for the truth about Tiananmen to come out - and then if they decide to ignore it, then that's their choice. It's their history after all. If they choose harmony, who's to say it's wrong for them.
    Glad to see we are on the same page here.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    I'd like to see ordinary folks in China get access to media and for the truth about Tiananmen to come out - and then if they decide to ignore it, then that's their choice. It's their history after all. If they choose harmony, who's to say it's wrong for them.
    Can you have complete and free access to the media in a one party system? I'm not ramming democracy down the throats of anyone; I'm saying give people the choice.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Never said they were NOT concerned...just said they had more pressing concerns than democracy...can't speak for all, but for some people relatively not well off that I know of, democracy would be a nice thing to have but certainly not their main priority....
    Same could be said for any society. Your argument appears to be that because some people do not have democracy as their main priority, then democracy should be denied for all.

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