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Is Hong Kong's economy diseased?

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  1. #21

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    Funny you vaguely mention studies with nothing to back it up... That's really just about as solid as mentioning that you talked to some locals therefore you are right. Awesome logic!

    Instead of rambling, do tell us how the government isn't tackling economic issues that would prevent older people from having to work. The only way I see it is through some kind of social welfare and by establishing more pension guidelines (which has already started with mandatory MPF) instead of relying on younger members of their family to take care of them.

    I won't disagree that for the elderly, working if often an economic issue however at the government level, it's a social welfare issue. Now if you disagree with this, make a valid point as opposed to some stupid remark about talking to locals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Nothing in your attempt to smear my point takes old people out of the economy.

    Who mentioned who managed budgets in western countries? Who criticized how HK gov't uses their money? I didn't. Oh you used to to change the topic from diseased economy.

    No matter how you cut it, older people cleaning the washrooms in HK are part of the economy no matter how many words or definitions you use to obscure the issue.

    You are not exactly spot on as to why many HKers returned to HK from Canada.

    In fact the studies done show they returned as many could not get the jobs befitting their experience and skills or education. Studies are consistent in their findings. Canadian income taxes are not the driver of HKers out of Canada. Income taxes come into play only AFTER you get a job.

    There are many reasons for many people to stay or leave and taxes is not the primary reason.

    Spin it as you may but these old people work as they have NO choice. They are part of the economy.

    Just because I have heard locals voice their displeasure at older people who should be retired cleaning toilets here and stated it as such does not exclude them from the economy.

    Maybe you have been gone from Canada too long or you really believe your own spin as to what makes up the economy.

  2. #22

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    One has a choice as to the kind of rent you have to pay which isn't the case with taxes. I pay exactly the same rent I used to pay in when I lived in Canada. Granted I get a little less for it and the place is older but at least I have a choice and I pay 0 taxes on my income here since it's all capital gains. I will never again be a resident of these western welfare states thanks very much but no thanks.

    Another interesting point is that someone earning minimum wages in a place like Canada will still pay significant taxes not to mention the value added tax on all goods. With the same wage here, that person has access to public housing and will pay no tax. There's a significant brain drain in Canada and if you think high taxes play little or no part in it, you're head is stuck deep in the sand.

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  3. #23

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    Hey Gilles...you do your own research man. You've been gone from Canada too long. I am not digging out studies that were well publicized in the mainstream Canadian media. Too bad you are not much addressing the main question. Are you and skyhook joined at the hip...haha

    Min. wage laws in Canada are provincial matters not federal and each province sets their own tax rate so what you are on about is ludicrous.

    HK economy includes old people cleaning public washrooms. You keep spinning but that is a fact. I have no how you got on the tangents of welfare when that was not the question and not my point.

    Last edited by Football16; 24-10-2010 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #24

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    Let's see, you make a claim about studies with nothing to back it up and I'm supposed to do the research to prove your point. Well, I see you keep making more and more sense...Bravo!

    Again, claiming that what I'm saying is ludicrous with nothing to back it up. Lots of hot air and no substance. Minimal differences in min wage laws and provincial tax rates make no difference to the larger point. A poor person(and everyone else) in Canada will pay significantly more taxes than in HK regardless of the province they live in and access to public housing certainly isn't better than over here. Do tell how that is ludicrous...

    As for your last statement once again means nothing... Kids buying gum at the 7/11 is part of the economy following that brilliant train of thought... I wouldn't go around making it an economic issue though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Hey Gilles...you do your own research man. You've been gone from Canada too long. I am not digging out studies that were well publicized in the mainstream Canadian media. Too bad you are not much addressing the main question. Are you and skyhook joined at the hip...haha

    Min. wage laws in Canada are provincial matters not federal and each province sets their own tax rate so what you are on about is ludicrous.

    HK economy includes old people cleaning public washrooms. You keep spinning but that is a fact. I have no how you got on the tangents of welfare when that was not the question and not my point.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    HK economy includes old people cleaning public washrooms. You keep spinning but that is a fact. I have no how you got on the tangents of welfare when that was not the question and not my point.
    There are plenty of pensioners in Australia that live on no name brand cat food, who live a pretty boring, wait to die, lifestyle, who now, cant even afford to watch TV all day, because energy/electricity costs have gone up 40% over the last 5 years, that they now have to ration the hours they use power !

    The very luckiest/smartest of pensioners move to Bali, where their $230pw pension is enough to live like a king,the luxury of having a maid, the ability to eat quality/fresh food and the ability to save some money each week. This would be unheard of in Aus where pensioners suffer a pretty shit life, which is pretty disgusting when you consider the almost $6,000,000.00 worth of tax the average pensioner couple would have handed out in income tax to the govt over 40 years. And what do they get to look forward to when they retire ?

    Mmm, no name cat food, on toast.

    PS: some of these "poor" box/washroom lady's actually have a couple of million hidden away in their mattresses, and it boils down to psychiatric problems like hoarding/OCD which even happens in western nations, it isn't directly based on the city's economic wealth. Money isn't the solution to their problem.
    Last edited by Skyhook; 25-10-2010 at 08:41 AM.

  6. #26

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    I just wondered Skyhook, is it possible to say anything even vaguely critical of HK without you getting in a huff and comparing it to Australia?


  7. #27

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    Keep digging Gilles.. keep digging.


  8. #28

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    What a witty repartee... It's just as impressive as the rest of your argument


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    {snip}, which is pretty disgusting when you consider the almost $6,000,000.00 worth of tax the average pensioner couple would have handed out in income tax to the govt over 40 years. And what do they get to look forward to when they retire ? {snip}
    I am hoping that you didn't go through the government schools in Australia.
    I won't bother replying to the rest of your post, as you pick and choose outrageous examples, but your math is impossible.

    $6m over 40 years in tax?
    6,000,000 / 40yrs = $150,000 a year.
    The average salary of two people is around half of that figure.
    So, how can they pay twice as much income tax as their salary?

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile:
    I am hoping that you didn't go through the government schools in Australia.
    I won't bother replying to the rest of your post, as you pick and choose outrageous examples, but your math is impossible.

    $6m over 40 years in tax?
    6,000,000 / 40yrs = $150,000 a year.
    The average salary of two people is around half of that figure.
    So, how can they pay twice as much income tax as their salary?
    The average tax paid by a household in the UK (including income tax, VAT, national insurance, etc etc) comes to the equivalent of just under AUS$1,000,000 for the lifetime. I guess it depends on which $ Skyhook meant: US, HK, AUS. Of course for that the household gets free education, free health care, child benefit, unemployment benefit, sickness benefit, retirement pension, etc etc.

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