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An independent Hong Kong?

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  1. #31

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    pin-As I said, China needs only to turn off the tap and imposed an embargo on Hong Kong to strangle any independence. In effect, they can place a siege around the city, no matter how strong HK's defence could be, it cannot outlast the embargo. Would this hurt China economically and politically? Of course, but when it comes to core values, values that impact on the CCP's governing legitimacy and hence it's grip on power, nothing will stop the CCP. And Hong Kong going independent is something tantamount to insurrection, even for a post-CCP government with democratic pretensions.

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  2. #32

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    It is not likely that HK could co-exist in harmony with China if it was a fully independent country. The concept of a small fully independent, liberal (economically & politically), deep ports and with the rule of law sitting right next to China sounds great.

    But China would probably just close off the tax advantages (perhaps not overnight), develop and promote an internal city(s) to mimic the city states industries, enforce strange rules for flight paths, facilitate / develop mass migration so the city loses its self identity, ensure all the cities hard earned cash is wasted on grand integration projects and the city state would gradually die a death of a thousand cuts.

    Ok the building of white elephant projects integration projects could not be done if it were truly separate

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  3. #33

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    Actually it the British could very well have fostered HK independence should they have chosen to do so in the past, as many historians have argued. There were even ideas on the table in the late 1800's-early 1900's by British governors to induce reforms in the written language and education (as other nations did with its colonies)that would have separated HK much more from China. If Britain would have done so, perhaps the idea of a "handover" would have not been so easy around 1984!

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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    Actually it the British could very well have fostered HK independence should they have chosen to do so in the past, as many historians have argued. There were even ideas on the table in the late 1800's-early 1900's by British governors to induce reforms in the written language and education (as other nations did with its colonies)that would have separated HK much more from China. If Britain would have done so, perhaps the idea of a "handover" would have not been so easy around 1984!
    That may work in the late 1800s and early 1900s when China was weak and divided, but not where China was like post-1949. There is no Taiwan Strait to protect Hong Kong like Taiwan has. Changes in written language or education in Hong Kong would only be seen in China as colonialist attempt to wipe out Chinese character of the city (hypocritical for the CCP to say since that is how it treats its own minorities, but that is another matter). And why would Hong Kongers accept the elimination of their language and customs?

    Bottom line, all of you are ignoring the very strong nationalist undercurrent of China when it comes to what it considers territorial integrity. China cannot compromise when it sees it's own territory is at stake, like Hong Kong. Not saying that is right or wrong, but that is the reality of the situation.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watercooler:
    That may work in the late 1800s and early 1900s when China was weak and divided, but not where China was like post-1949. There is no Taiwan Strait to protect Hong Kong like Taiwan has. Changes in written language or education in Hong Kong would only be seen in China as colonialist attempt to wipe out Chinese character of the city (hypocritical for the CCP to say since that is how it treats its own minorities, but that is another matter). And why would Hong Kongers accept the elimination of their language and customs?

    Bottom line, all of you are ignoring the very strong nationalist undercurrent of China when it comes to what it considers territorial integrity. China cannot compromise when it sees it's own territory is at stake, like Hong Kong. Not saying that is right or wrong, but that is the reality of the situation.
    I think you misunderstand, if Britain actually implanted these policies in the late 1800's, by 1949 they would already be in full effect and irreversible. In this way China can thank Britain they didn't have the same Colonist attitude as for example French colonial rule in Vietnam (abolishing the Chinese script).

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    I think you misunderstand, if Britain actually implanted these policies in the late 1800's, by 1949 they would already be in full effect and irreversible. In this way China can thank Britain they didn't have the same Colonist attitude as for example French colonial rule in Vietnam (abolishing the Chinese script).
    It's not a question of irreversiblity, it's China refusing to ever accept Hong Kong as independent. China will only bide it's time and wait for the right opportunity to recover Hong Kong. Paradoxically, forcing HKers to only speak English would only further strengthen China's resolve to recover Hong Kong, because as I said, it is seen as colonial imposition of foreign culture on them, and a strong China could never accept that. It does not matter how the UK wants to make HK independent, geographical reality and political nationalism means China will never tolerate it. Nor as I pointed out, are Hong Kongers so indifferent to abolishing their own written language.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watercooler:
    It's not a question of irreversiblity, it's China refusing to ever accept Hong Kong as independent. China will only bide it's time and wait for the right opportunity to recover Hong Kong. Paradoxically, forcing HKers to only speak English would only further strengthen China's resolve to recover Hong Kong, because as I said, it is seen as colonial imposition of foreign culture on them, and a strong China could never accept that. It does not matter how the UK wants to make HK independent, geographical reality and political nationalism means China will never tolerate it. Nor as I pointed out, are Hong Kongers so indifferent to abolishing their own written language.
    I'm not talking about instituting English, but the plan to have the written language not follow the Mandarin form but reflect the spoken Cantonese in Chinese characters for instance as now happens inofficially.
    Last edited by Gatts; 03-02-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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  8. #38

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    1. Tibetans, Mongolians, Hmongs, Zhuang and others all have their own languages.
    2. New territories was leased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    I'm not talking about instituting English, but the plan to have the written language not follow the Mandarin form but reflect the spoken Cantonese in Chinese characters for instance as now happens inofficially.

  9. #39

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    Like the Uighurs in Xinjiang. China just came along and imposed mandarin and chinese script on them (although is proving a slow process)

    Last edited by shenwen; 03-02-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzalover:
    1. Tibetans, Mongolians, Hmongs, Zhuang and others all have their own languages.
    2. New territories was leased.
    Yes, what are you trying to say?

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