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Why not let Hong Kong people be as miserable as everyone else!

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by d-28:
    Oh for fuck sake HK people are as dumb as dog shit if they seriously think a chosen representative will make one iota of difference in anything
    The ability to de-select a bad leader is surely more important to the continued development of a society.

  2. #12

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    To be replaced by who? Someone else equally as bad or worse is the only correct answer.


  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by d-28:
    Oh for fuck sake HK people are as dumb as dog shit if they seriously think a chosen representative will make one iota of difference in anything
    Maybe, but at least they will get to think there will be a difference if they get a chance to elect their own representatives.

  4. #14

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    I don't get why Beijing is so against is choosing the CE. That must be the most impotent position in the HK government.


  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    I don't get why Beijing is so against is choosing the CE. That must be the most impotent position in the HK government.
    The start of a slippery slope. If they allow that people will push for more. Asa UK uni operating in China we required a student rep. Our Chinese partner would only agree to this if they could provide a shortlist of 3 approved students. If they are frightened of open student rep elections they are not going to allow open CE elections.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    The start of a slippery slope. If they allow that people will push for more. Asa UK uni operating in China we required a student rep. Our Chinese partner would only agree to this if they could provide a shortlist of 3 approved students. If they are frightened of open student rep elections they are not going to allow open CE elections.
    For Beijing, everything would be great if there is only one candidate.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by A_New_Life:
    Regardless of issue, I think Hongkongers in general are very unhappy about the lack of opportunities today compared to pre-1997 days.

    Even without this universal suffrage movement, there will always be another issue. Nobody complains when there is money to be shared and resources available for exploit.

    Remember many locals earn 10-20k monthly salary. To understand them, you need to look beyond the expat lifestyle.
    Yes, they probably are. I do know that 10-20k is a pretty standard salary, even for talented young people. And it seems almost impossible that they can ever imagine earning enough money to put a down payment on buying their own flat and creating their own independent families. I've seen students work so hard from 6-9 pm every day for two years just to earn a Bachelors degree so they can move up one little step at their job, which will then require them to work until 8 (or 9, or 10...). On the other hand, there are a lot of things that make Hong Kong people well off: relative safety, health care, cheap, reliable transportation. Even here in Hong Kong, I felt proud that I was able to write letters and speak up to keep a bar from opening next door in our quiet neighborhood (let's see if the people's voice has much influence on the CE's plan to build escalators!). At the local level, there seems to be a lot of democracy.

    Please note, that I'm not insensitive to the issues they face. I have taught young people for 2 years now in Hong Kong, and I've heard enough presentations and read enough essays on how terrible the chief executive is and why Mainland tourists bring some benefits, but mostly disadvantages, to Hong Kong, to last me a lifetime.

    I know it's not much compared to some expats, but having now lived in 4 different countries, I am starting to build a sense that everyone/country has it's downsides and upsides. And at the end of the day, it's all about the same wherever you are -- that is, the human propensity to complain that the grass is always greener on the other side! If there were no media to tell us about all the "issues", one has to wonder how much people would notice half of them in their actual day-to-day lives (perhaps more so in Hong Kong...because you just can't HELP noticing those Mainlanders! :P).
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    I know it's not much compared to some expats, but having now lived in 4 different countries, I am starting to build a sense that everyone/country has it's downsides and upsides. And at the end of the day, it's all about the same wherever you are -- that is, the human propensity to complain that the grass is always greener on the other side! If there were no media to tell us about all the "issues", one has to wonder how much people would notice half of them in their actual day-to-day lives (perhaps more so in Hong Kong...because you just can't HELP noticing those Mainlanders! :P).
    Hehe , /thread

    Even if HK had universal suffrage, it will not cure the social and economic problems that exist. The CE is not a dictator.

    Politicians are just puppets and the people in power (combined with wealth) do have the people by their balls, so-to-speak.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by d-28:
    To be replaced by who? Someone else equally as bad or worse is the only correct answer.
    The quality of governance around the world is generally improving. There are exceptions but the world is better run now than 50 or 100 years ago. One of the main changes is the increase in democratic principles which seems to suggest that it does offer a better way of of helping to ensure terrible leaders are removed and replaced by relatively better ones.

    If that were not the case as you suggest the quality of governance would be getting worse - it isn't.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by A_New_Life:
    Even if HK had universal suffrage, it will not cure the social and economic problems that exist. The CE is not a dictator.

    Politicians are just puppets and the people in power (combined with wealth) do have the people by their balls, so-to-speak.
    It is not possible to state that a different CE could not start to reduce some of the inequalities in the city. Under the current CE there has been a number of populist policies such as stopping the embarrassment of trolley loads of milk powder crossing the border, banning middle class mainland Chinese from flouting the one baby policy, reducing mainland chinese from taking capital out to buy widely overpriced assets (HK homes). But little else.

    Although the current CE has also taken land earmarked for private development and changed it to even more public housing even though the city has far too much public housing which causes generational poverty issues.

    Could a different CE do a better job for Hong Kong people - Yes
    Last edited by East_coast; 20-07-2014 at 05:03 AM.