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17-23 August - Protest News & Discussion

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  1. #121

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    Great article from nyt, lots of video and images that really making a damning case. Here's the link. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-tear-gas.html
    The main points.

    1) police throwing tear gas from up high "“This is ridiculous,” said Jim Bueermann, former president of the Police Foundation in Washington, referring to a video that appeared to show tear gas being fired off a commercial tower....You are now taking a less-lethal tool, the tear gas, and making it a potentially lethal object.”

    2) shows the police firing in Kwai Fong one round, then another. Condemnation from the same Bueermann and from S. African expert.

    3) firing tear gas at people "“They are being fired at very high velocity; the launchers that are used are basically guns” said Anna Feigenbaum, an expert on tear gas at Bournemouth University in England."

    4) indiscriminate use of tear gas "The use of a second and third round of tear gas, to the experts, also seemed to go too far. “If people are leaving, and that was your intent, then stop using it,” Mr. Bueermann said."


  2. #122

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    A crowd dressed for action seems to be gathering in Admiralty- they surrounded some guy in a red T-shirt and chased him off (press seemed to safeguard him). They aren't going anywhere and have helmets and gas masks.


  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie1:
    Great article from nyt, lots of video and images that really making a damning case. Here's the link. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-tear-gas.html
    The main points. 1) police throwing tear gas from up high "“This is ridiculous,” said Jim Bueermann, former president of the Police Foundation in Washington, referring to a video that appeared to show tear gas being fired off a commercial tower....You are now taking a less-lethal tool, the tear gas, and making it a potentially lethal object.” 2) shows the police firing in Kwai Fong one round, then another. Condemnation from the same Bueermann and from S. African expert. 3) firing tear gas at people "“They are being fired at very high velocity; the launchers that are used are basically guns” said Anna Feigenbaum, an expert on tear gas at Bournemouth University in England." 4) indiscriminate use of tear gas "The use of a second and third round of tear gas, to the experts, also seemed to go too far. “If people are leaving, and that was your intent, then stop using it,” Mr. Bueermann said."
    Lol this Bueermann guy's main credential is being former Police Chief of Redlands, California...population 60k...

    I grew up in New York and given the circumstances there is no way a similar protest would have zero deaths in New York, or any major city in the U.S. for that matter.

  4. #124

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    It would be a great shame if today's peaceful march turned into a violent protest now.

    Coolboy likes this.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceofangel:
    Lol this Bueermann guy's main credential is being former Police Chief of Redlands, California...population 60k...

    I grew up in New York and given the circumstances there is no way a similar protest would have zero deaths in New York, or any major city in the U.S. for that matter.
    Isn't Redlands basically part of LA? I'd guess they would have more training and experience with crowd control techniques there than most other places in the Western world.
    Elefant&Castle likes this.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    It would be a great shame if today's peaceful march turned into a violent protest now.
    Depends on what the protesters and police do next. The ideal scenario is of course for the protesters to peacefully leave Harcourt Road. But will the police let them? Given past history of how these protests end, I am not optimistic for a quiet ending. The authorities lack of tolerance for long-term occupation of Harcourt Road militates against a soft approach. Expect more tear gas tonight I fear...or maybe even the water cannon, it is now deployed on HK Island.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 18-08-2019 at 09:49 PM.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Isn't Redlands basically part of LA? I'd guess they would have more training and experience with crowd control techniques there than most other places in the Western world.
    No, Redlands is 60 miles from LA. LAPD is municipal police.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceofangel:
    Lol this Bueermann guy's main credential is being former Police Chief of Redlands, California...population 60k...

    I grew up in New York and given the circumstances there is no way a similar protest would have zero deaths in New York, or any major city in the U.S. for that matter.
    In any major city in the US the protesters would have burned Legco to the ground after storming it.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    In any major city in the US the protesters would have burned Legco to the ground after storming it.
    Well, for one if it was in the U.S. the police will certainly shoot and in major cities there are national guard stationed at key buildings. The protesters will also likely be just as well armed. However it is unlikely they would get far given the numbers. Anti-terrorism measures are no joke nowadays.

  10. #130
    Isn't Redlands basically part of LA? I'd guess they would have more training and experience with crowd control techniques there than most other places in the Western world.
    I don't know Bueermann, but he's a senior cop

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-bueermann-b3275a2/

    and I don't think there is anything controversial about what he is being quoted for - others have said similar.

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/17/reckless-use-tear-gas-hong-kong-police-confined-spaces-dangerous-patently-unlawful/

    On the whole, I think the fighting is less radical than what you can see elsewhere - e.g. at G20 summits.
    But there seems to be individuals in the HK police who go out of their way to try to hurt protesters.
    Both taking casual head shots - when they should not - and even sniping like that woman who was blinded.

    And aggressive arrests - like the guy who had his face pressed into the ground to the point that his front teeth came loose - though he was completely pacified.

    What is amazing is the amount of video documentary of the actions - rarely seen that before.
    shri, Mrs. Jones and Elegiaque like this.

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