Merry Christmas from HK Immigration

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  1. #11

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    Yes the stand off over the hospital bill, they mentioned they could not pay as reported in the SCuMP. And as any fool knows if you require medical treatment you pay if you are not resident. So that was also an issue. Where was her insurance? How would the case have been treated elsewhere? Could she have walked straight into a hospital in the US and been treated for free?

    The hospitals responsibility does require they report the case and cases regarding pregnancy are normally given priority treatment, hey I've seen it myself. Obstetrics departments are already stretched to the limit here and struggle to even provide enough care for locals. But in this case you can do something about it if you feel so strongly. Volunteer your services to your local hospital. They are short of volunteers so would welcome you with open arms.


  2. #12

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    Sorry Jaykay, I understand your points but I don't accept the rationale. To leave a patient unattended for 3 hours while you argue about money is obscene. Doctors and nurses have an obligation to provide care first and foremost, everything else is secondary.


  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvesterjay:
    Sorry Jaykay, I understand your points but I don't accept the rationale. To leave a patient unattended for 3 hours while you argue about money is obscene. Doctors and nurses have an obligation to provide care first and foremost, everything else is secondary.
    I agree with you, but it seems there are some countries in the world (the US being the primary example that springs to mind) where this is not a universal truth. It seems here is now the same. I guess those of us who come from a place where "heath services" are open to all might find this pretty unacceptable, but clearly others do not. Surely, however, if this woman had a visa to come to HK for the birth of her child she should have had the means to pay? If not, then perhaps there is more to this story than we are being told.

  4. #14

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    But hang on - we have no idea what the lead time for treatment for other patients at that hospital at that time was. If she was triaged as non-urgent then it is perfectly within the bounds of normal experience to wait 3 hours for treatment.


  5. #15

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    On the point of SOP then that has to be down to culture and modus operandi of the education system, much as 07 has allured to. You read, you remember, you transcribe. Rather than what we western educated understand learning as being; a tool to question, investigate and improve. With the former, it would need a major change in culture to see any hope of "real time" understanding to cope with situations of reasonable non compliance with the SOP.

    In regard of problems in the Health departments psyche per sea then my recent experience at QMH seems more relevant to understanding. Final check up 11 am appointment, arrive early and wait, wait, wait. surrounded by more the 100 old, frail and sick. All suffering in silence. At 12 I asked about the delay and was told - soon soon. Mmmmmmmm - the Boris in me rebelled and I chased the manager to no avail but was told they where still seeing people from the 10:30 " allocation " .

    Not happy with that so sought out ( after being fobbed of to the Public Relations Department ) the head of clinics manager, a nice lady who informed me that the booking system could have up to 50 patients allotted to any 30 minute slot !!! She knew the problem was wrong but her bosses ( professors all ) having set upon a regime of having to report statistics of people seen and not waiting times reduced and efficiency improved .. had a major case of deaf ear. The SOP was the SOP.

    Its not as if all of this is exclusive to the public sector either. My wife's recent private health system appointment in a pre natal clinic resulted in an hours wait also. Complaint just resulted in another " soon soon ".

    Long story short ... any change in seeing improvement in this culture for " non critical care " is going to be achieved after a cold day in hell. So bring a warm coat, clear you appointments for the day and bring a big book to read .... even if your visa is properly entered.

    I am surprised the ladies story even made the paper. Must have been a very slow news day.


  6. #16

    The hospital/medical care in the states would not of been free, but she would not of been denied treatment irregardless of her immigration status. We do not deny medical services for those in need. Nor do we run to the nearest police station to report suspected illegal immigrants.

    This is back in the states mind you, where we put illegal immigrants in prison for a few years. At the same time, we can think out of the box and do whats best for the patient and not the bottom line.

    That being said, if you look at most countries that have been colonized or otherwise occupied, you will find that most of the population in those countries do not have the free will to think outside of the box.

    The need for profit in most Asian countries is so great that what counts here is the bottom line and not human nature or the collateral damage we inflict on one another in pursuit of that profit.

    Everyone is too busy chasing that dollar to be concerned with the little things like caring for each other in a genuine way instead of the false pseudo care that does not go beyond where we part ways at the cab stand.

    Everyone here wants to be a Tycoon, 99.999% will fail, there is only one Lai Kai Sing, only one Bill Gates, only one Larry Ellison. The sooner you realize this, the happier you will be in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    Could she have walked straight into a hospital in the US and been treated for free?
    Last edited by MichelleMichell; 24-12-2009 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleMichell:
    That being said, if you look at most countries that have been colonized or otherwise occupied, you will find that most of the population in those countries do not have the free will to think outside of the box.
    Like the US you mean?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    But hang on - we have no idea what the lead time for treatment for other patients at that hospital at that time was. If she was triaged as non-urgent then it is perfectly within the bounds of normal experience to wait 3 hours for treatment.
    Indeed - but most patients are not subsequently arrested or taken in for questioning by the Police.

    My 'problem' with this story is that medical staff are being asked to act as law enforcers as well as healthcare workers. Where you and I come from it is not uncommon for medical staff to refuse to allow the Police to even interview a patient (where the patient is a suspect or witness to a crime) if the doctors deem the patient to be too ill.

    My sister is a NHS trained nurse (King's College in south London - but is now in private practice) and I remember her telling me that sometimes in the course of treating a patient certain irregularities would come to light (normally that the patient had overstayed and wasn't in any case entitled to free NHS treatment- this was south London and close to Dulwich/Brixton/Peckham etc). However, I remember her telling me that they had a clear policy of non-interference. Certain things between patient and staff remained confidential. Immigration status was clearly one of them.

  9. #19

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    Well a doctor who had been working in the UK told me recently of cases where hospital administrators intervene and force patients either to pay or leave. So I don't think it's that clear cut.

    Moreover, hospitals in most countries are obliged to report to police if someone presents at the hospital with what looks like the result of a crime (gunshot wound, stab wound, domestic violence etc).

    Personally I still don't see sufficient evidence to show that the medics did anything wrong in this case. The woman was clearly not seriously ill.


  10. #20

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    If someone has been hospitalised and needs a hosipital bed/operation then yes I can see that enquiries would be made. I can also understand that if someone came in with stab wounds or gunshot wounds etc then the police would be notified.

    However, for someone turning up in any busy A & E dept within the NHS for minor treatment I doubt whether any check would be made as to immigration status. Perhaps that is more to do with the lack of ID cards in the UK than anything else. No way a nurse is going to ask to see someone's passport before treating them.