The New Express Train Link

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  1. #1

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    The New Express Train Link

    WSJ: Hong Kong Lawmakers to Vote on Express Train to Mainland

    While I'm in favour of train travel, and generally much prefer it to plane or bus travel, I think a lot rubbish is being sprouted on all sides about the issue.

    First the proposed location: West Kowloon is convenient for me as I live in Kowloon. But for people living in the NT it will mean a trip in the opposite direction to use the station, while for people on HK island, there would not be much difference between travelling to West Kowloon and travelling a few minutes more to a station in the NT at Kam Sheung Road.

    Cost: HK$66.9 billion is a lot of money. Especially as the usually suspects will make money from the project. And I have no doubt the final cost will be higher.

    Journey Times: It's reported that it will be 45 minutes to Guangzhou, as opposed to nearly 2 hours now. However, now you are going to the centre of Guangzhou, while in the future it would be to an outlying suburb of Guangzhou. So, not that much of an improvement. For longer trips, such as Beijing and Shanghai, there is a halving of journey times to around 10 hours. But, on a journey time of 10 hours, you are not that worried about it taking a few minutes longer to get to the station which is not in the city centre - as long as there are good connections to it.

    Number of Passengers: A quoted statistic by Eva Cheng is that "660,000 people travel from HK to the Mainland every week." However, if they just go to Shenzhen or Dongguan, then the new express train won't help them much. Is the new train line being built to create demand, or to meet existing demand?

    Villagers in the NT: I think they are just holding out for very high compensation packages. They don't have much sympathy from me, given the destruction of most of the countryside in that area.

    Integration in to Mainland Economy: Are people serious if they believe HK will be left behind if the train station is in the NT rather than Kowloon West?

    Democratic Opposition: I think to some extent it is a case if the Government has a policy we will oppose it out of bloodymindedness.

    For me, I think save the money and put it in the NT. Then improve transport links to it from the rest of Hong Kong.


  2. #2

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    They are building it to stop people from getting dizzy when they get on the train.

    That is the only reason.

    But its a valid reason.


  3. #3

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    The train link confuses me for a couple of reasons - never mind the cost which would I think be better spent on other things in HK.

    First - who the hell is going to be travelling between West Kowloon and Guangzhou suburbs? many foreign business people and tourists will be flying in to China directly as it is cheaper and airports and infrastructure improves every year. So who needs this rail link when we already have one. If it is to join the high speed rail network in China well usually train journeys are good for up to 3 hours travelling after which it is best to fly. Business in Dirtland is moving West and North so I don't see much advantage in the train.

    Unless the aim is to get more rich mainlanders into HK? And slowly let the poor of HK become hired help or migrate into Dirtland.

    If the focus in HK is going to be tourism and finance and 'hi-tech' projects and R&D; why do we need a new train line? What do we need to transport fast? Goods? Chinese ports are improving all the time - with HK help! So that doesn't make much sense. Neither to get stuff in or out.

    The only sense I can see is property; which is great if you are making over-priced rabbit hutches.


  4. #4

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    For the proposed route through HK see the leaflet at the end of this link.


  5. #5

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    I believe foreign buisiness people and tourists in HK are not the main customers. Most the train riders will be mainlanders and Hong Konger locals. If your destination is just Guangzhou, then we may not need this rail very much. However, you can reach other major cities in the Mainland, Changsha, Wuhan, Xiamen etc etc.. Yes, some manufacturing business is moving to the inland. But most GDP is still generated in the east and south. The high speed train is even attractive for very long-distance travels. You can get on the train at midnight in HK, and wake up in Beijing in the early morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Load Toad:
    The train link confuses me for a couple of reasons - never mind the cost which would I think be better spent on other things in HK.

    First - who the hell is going to be travelling between West Kowloon and Guangzhou suburbs? many foreign business people and tourists will be flying in to China directly as it is cheaper and airports and infrastructure improves every year. So who needs this rail link when we already have one. If it is to join the high speed rail network in China well usually train journeys are good for up to 3 hours travelling after which it is best to fly. Business in Dirtland is moving West and North so I don't see much advantage in the train.


    Unless the aim is to get more rich mainlanders into HK? And slowly let the poor of HK become hired help or migrate into Dirtland.

    If the focus in HK is going to be tourism and finance and 'hi-tech' projects and R&D; why do we need a new train line? What do we need to transport fast? Goods? Chinese ports are improving all the time - with HK help! So that doesn't make much sense. Neither to get stuff in or out.

    The only sense I can see is property; which is great if you are making over-priced rabbit hutches.

  6. #6

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    One of the purposes of the link is to increase traffic to the Airport. With high speed links into China.. suddenly the HK Airport becomes MUCH more attractive for the trade to travel in and out of.


  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    One of the purposes of the link is to increase traffic to the Airport. With high speed links into China.. suddenly the HK Airport becomes MUCH more attractive for the trade to travel in and out of.
    Then they better link the high speed rail directly to the airport, else changing planes is more convenient than changing to the AEL, going down to Kowloon and then onto the high speed train.
    Obviously that would not be a good solution because then anyone departing from downtown would probably prefer to fly than driving to the airport to catch a train ...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumbrake:
    Cost: HK$66.9 billion is a lot of money. Especially as the usually suspects will make money from the project. And I have no doubt the final cost will be higher.
    I too have a problem with the cost. The government is also spending a shedload on the bridge to Macau. They say that these are needed to create jobs and ensure Hong Kong is linked to the mainland. From what I can see these have been pushed through very quickly and without alot of thought (they didn't even realise where the line was ending in Guangzhou until recently). And then you have the most recent harbour land reclamation program that is all done in the name of improving traffic flow.

    Yet, the government complains that they don't have money for "The War on Drugs" and they don't have even a basic recycling program or any clear direction on how Hong Kong will more forward environmentally. Even putting through a law on light globes runs into controversy and seems to get more cricitism and debate.

    The funny thing is, everyone knows it will be over budget, the big end of town just wants the money and the the rail line is the answer to a question that no one really asked. I am not saying don't do it (because the idea is not a totally invalid one), but it really shows how the government really works.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    One of the purposes of the link is to increase traffic to the Airport. With high speed links into China.. suddenly the HK Airport becomes MUCH more attractive for the trade to travel in and out of.
    I don't buy that shri. Chinese airports are rapidly improving as is Chinese infrastructure generally - using the expensive HK airport when you can go direct to China? Already many of my customers bypass Hong Kong as there is little point coming here apart from exhibitions and entertainment.

    Bringing in Mainlanders (tourists etc to bring in money) - is that really worth HK70 billion?

    I like trains as a form of transport but this link looks unnecessarily expensive.

  10. #10

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    Having just beenn on the new Wuhan/Changsha/Guangzhou express i can tell you it is superb except the terminus is Guanghzou North- which is in the middle of nowhere basically.

    You get off this fantastic high speed train and onto a crappy old bus -get stuck in traffic for an hour over then get off at GZ Central bus station walk over to the train station lugging bags etc then onto the fast GZ to SZ train to arrive a mere 2 hours and a lot more hassle(and more expensive) than the regular service

    The Hang Yeung Hunan terminal is also 20 mins 40 Yuan by taxi out of town

    This seems to be the main problem with this link- the remote terminals and poor connections .Will either fly or just get a regular service next time


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