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looking for shetland-sheepdog

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  1. #21

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Mid-levels, Hong Kong
    Posts
    106

    Don't buy from hobby breeders

    I wouldn't buy a puppy from Dumbo. She is no different from a pet shop / puppy mill, only that her litter is produced in an apartment. I have seen her apartment with the shelties before - they are cramped in small cages, which are in turn cramped with other cages with other animals like hamsters and rabbits. The ceaseless barking of the dogs may also be an indication that they are not exercised enough.

    If you want to purchase a dog from "hobby breeders", always, always check the conditions where they are bred. Check also their parents - are they healthy, good-natured, exercised and do they have a good temperament?

    Dumbo - I think you should stop this "hobby" of yours. It's disgraceful and misleading.

    AIP, juliej and Fiona in HKG like this.

  2. #22

    yeah i have seen some pretty disgraceful breeding conditions myself. whilst in LA I was also looking for a Sheltie and I drove way out into the middle of nowhere and found the lady had at least 30 - 40 Shelties, and most of them were in stacked crates in a shed... It was so horrible. I wanted to buy them all just to rescue them from such a horrible person. When I was in the UK I was looking at Border collies and went to a breeders house that actually had a very good reputation in the US and he had dogs "crated" in broken vehicles in the front yard and was keeping the puppies in the equivalent of a closet... this guy was a very well known breeder that people quite often bought puppies from sight unseen and had them shipped to their homes. So i would most definitely not recommend buy from overseas if you are not able to visit.

    As for hobby breeders... well I don't mind hobby breeders as long as they are raising the puppies properly and not having multiple litters one after the other just to supplement thier income... For me a true hobby breeder may breed one of their dogs once in its life. I bred my first sheltie and ended up with 6 beautiful puppies of which I kept one and never bred either of them again. It is hard to find respectable people that are actually breeding because they love Shelties rather than just to make some additional money.

    Also, my first sheltie was probably from a puppy mill... I was 8 and didn't know any better and bred her when I was 11 and still didn't know any better. But I will have to say that those two Shelties were the best Shelties I have ever owned. I have bought from fancy expensive breeders and sadly the male that I got to show in confirmation grew WAY oversize and was dumb as a rock. I find that sometimes the reputable breeders just continue breeding the same thing over and over and quite often breed out the intelligence for the looks or vis versa. Personally I would rather have home raised puppy that I can get and care for from 6-8 weeks old... As long as the breeders loved it and socialized the puppy well then the rest is up to you. I feel quite confident that I can "turn a sow's ear into a silk sliper' because I have done it before.

    I just really love the bred and I think I convinced myself that I absolutely must get another Sheltie!


  3. #23

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    500

    Beijing1327, I can save you lots of time by telling you that you won't find a breeder that meets the standards you are looking for in HK. 99.9% of the breeders are not raising their puppies properly and are just in it for a quick buck. They breed them over and over and keep them in terrible conditions.

    If you show dogs here, you will be competing against dogs that have come into the world in these terrible conditions. This is the world in which you will be moving.

    Hong Kong calls itself Asia's world city but if you are a dog or cat, pedigree or mutt, unless you are one of the lucky few it's Asia's cruel city.

    I realise this isn't what you want to hear and you may try to dismiss it but if you do dare scratch beneath the surface of Hong Kong's pet trade and dog shows you will find an ugly scene behind the thin (in some places transparent) veneer of respectability.


  4. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    89

    Did I say I have more puppies or I will have some later? It was purely by accident that a litter of puppies came about.

    Just to get the records straight. My dogs are not caged all the time. They were there when you came over was because other people (you) were coming over. I just didn't want them rushing around. Dogs do bark when there are "strangers" in the house and when 1 starts barking, the others follow, that's all very natural to them. They actually stopped barking soon after you left and I had let them out of their cages.

    And since your visit, I had removed some furniture and the rest moved around so I had "created" more space for them at home.

    Most of my little ones were rescued from other people who didn't want them. I have always been doing my best to look after every single one of them. So don't judge without knowing all the facts!


  5. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by dumbo:
    It was purely by accident that a litter of puppies came about.
    An accident that involved a male and female of the same breed that presumably both belonged to you - responsible pet owners desex their dogs to avoid these kinds of accidents

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Mid-levels, Hong Kong
    Posts
    106

    beijing1327, you are absolutely right that a true proper breeder probably only lets the bitch produce one to two litters in her life. But unfortunately, there aren't many of these breeders around in HK. True breeders want to "better" the breed and will be VERY stringent about where their puppies go to. I know of breeders who will check all potential buyers' homes and question their lifestyle (do they have enough time to train and exercise the dog?) before letting them buy any of their puppies.

    dumbo, just to set the record straight here, I heard the dogs barking even before the lift reached your floor. And they barked non-stop once the lift door opened. Now, barking isn't usually a problem for me but when I saw the sheltie puppies in a small enclosed pen, all barking and trying to jump up for attention, it just broke my heart. There was pee and poop in the pen. The two adult shelties were kept in crates. There was absolutely NO space in your apartment for the dogs to be comfortable. All I saw in your apartment were boxes and crates, with minimal furniture.

    Like what AIP said, you're not responsible enough to prevent such an "accident". Put male and female dogs together and they will no doubt breed. It's in their nature. I'm also not convinced that it was an accident - looking at all your posts on geoexpat, you were trying to sell them pretty hard!


  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by AIP:
    Beijing1327, I can save you lots of time by telling you that you won't find a breeder that meets the standards you are looking for in HK. 99.9% of the breeders are not raising their puppies properly and are just in it for a quick buck. They breed them over and over and keep them in terrible conditions.

    If you show dogs here, you will be competing against dogs that have come into the world in these terrible conditions. This is the world in which you will be moving.

    Hong Kong calls itself Asia's world city but if you are a dog or cat, pedigree or mutt, unless you are one of the lucky few it's Asia's cruel city.

    I realise this isn't what you want to hear and you may try to dismiss it but if you do dare scratch beneath the surface of Hong Kong's pet trade and dog shows you will find an ugly scene behind the thin (in some places transparent) veneer of respectability.

    Couldn't agree more!

  8. #28

    I am a Hongkonger (hope it's alright to share something here) and a sheltie owner. I agree that there is no real sheltie breeder here. All you can find are hobby breeders. Actually I've visited Dumbo, too when I was finding my sheltie and I didn't buy from her. Parents are oversized, not suitable for me and I do mind about the environment they were in.

    I got my sheltie by knowing owners in sheltie forum (Chinese only). Puppies are offered by members occasionally. (seems only twice in 2009) You can meet the parents before getting puppies. I know some members including the forum owner import show-quality dogs from Taiwan, and some owners do DNA test afterwards to make sure their dogs are IVM and other inherited problem free. However, all the ppl I know who tested their dogs are not breeding them, so sad. (the bi-black dam of the forum owner is still waiting for the suitable sire, for years) Anyway, even so members are sharing information for adoptions or about good breeders overseas. Luckily my dog is quite healthy now, regardless of pedigree, that forum maybe a better channel than pet shop.


  9. #29

    There is no true sheltie breeders in HK, all you can find are hobby breeders.

    I've visited Dumbo when I was finding my puppy but I didn't buy from her. As parents are oversize and I do mind about the environment they were in.

    If you can read Chinese (or just make enquiry in English), you may get information about Sheltie here. You may encounter responsible hobby breeders like I did. The forum owner does not encourage trading lives but she may tell you information about importing dogs from Taiwan and overseas.