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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:
    You perhaps misunderstood my comment (or I did not explain clearly). I am not suggesting that someone be bumped up ahead of anyone else. But what I am trying to say is that the schools will not even put you on the waiting list AT ALL (at the end of the list) if you do not live in the area at the time of joining the waiting list.

    I called Clearwater Bay ESF and asked to join the waiting list. They said "Do you live in CWB". I said "No I do not live in HK but I am looking around at different schools for my kid and areas to live at the same time. Once a school accepts me, I will be sure to move to that area". Their reply was "Sorry but you cannot join our waiting list".

    So did you misunderstand my post (which is fair enough) or are you one of these dumbass school administrator knuckleheads who lacks complete common sense?
    If you are suggesting ESF's policy of not treating those families currently living in the catchment area the same as those living there as unfair, then I disagree. What else are the meant to do, especially (as it happens) where they are oversubscribed (as I know Abacus ESF is)?

    I think what you are saying is "I will move to an area as soon as a school accepts my child" but how is this feasible? What if you do not subsequently move there? It is a pretty onerous burden to put on a school and it helps no one if half of the children live nowhere near the school.

    To the original poster, there are a lot of international kindergartens in Kowloon Tong on Boundary Street. You could get a taxi up and down and see if any interest you.
    iflylow likes this.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:
    You perhaps misunderstood my comment (or I did not explain clearly). I am not suggesting that someone be bumped up ahead of anyone else. But what I am trying to say is that the schools will not even put you on the waiting list AT ALL (at the end of the list) if you do not live in the area at the time of joining the waiting list.

    I called Clearwater Bay ESF and asked to join the waiting list. They said "Do you live in CWB". I said "No I do not live in HK but I am looking around at different schools for my kid and areas to live at the same time. Once a school accepts me, I will be sure to move to that area". Their reply was "Sorry but you cannot join our waiting list".

    So did you misunderstand my post (which is fair enough) or are you one of these dumbass school administrator knuckleheads who lacks complete common sense?
    As usual, this is the very selfish perspective of someone outside a school who is not a school administrator having to deal with dumb ass knucklehead parents which are far more numerous than the admin kind...

    It's a very simple and fair policy that ensures that a family living in a particular area should be able to put children in a school within a reasonable amount of time. As pointed out, it's a very competitive market and there is no reason for a school to suffer the administrative nightmare of following up with parents after the fact. I could easily see parents walking in and first claiming to be in a hotel and looking or claiming they have to wait a certain period of time to change the lease or a million other excuses. Then the school either has to kick out students, deal with possible reimbursements, class disruptions, no doubt very heated meetings with parents... There are plenty of other things to do in school instead of accommodating "possible" customers that may or may not end up attending.
    dizzydancer2005 likes this.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckycat:
    ... but how is this feasible? What if you do not subsequently move there? It is a pretty onerous burden to put on a school and it helps no one if half of the children live nowhere near the school.
    You can show you live in the catchment area AT THE TIME YOU SIGN THE ACCEPTANCE LETTER instead of AT THE TIME YOU JOIN THE WAITING LIST. Is this so hard for dumbass school administrator knuckleheads to understand? What is so unfeasable about this? Why is this unfair to anybody?

    I agree it's stupid if half the children live nowhere near the school and I am not supporting this at all. I completely support the idea that you should live within the schools catchment area while attending the school. But just to join the waiting list is no logical reason whatsover. The schools just use illogical and dumbass reasons to trim the waiting list in anyway they can.

    While I am having a go at ESF, I might as well point out the stupidity of Discovery Bay ESF, which is one of only two ESF schools that DO NOT have a catchment area. They are busing kids in on long bus rides from all over HK and ignoring the local DB community which desperately needs more school places. So why does DB ESF do this? Ask them and they will give some illogical reason about how they are private so they can do what they want and ignore what is best for the kids and the community.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:
    You can show you live in the catchment area AT THE TIME YOU SIGN THE ACCEPTANCE LETTER instead of AT THE TIME YOU JOIN THE WAITING LIST. Is this so hard for dumbass school administrator knuckleheads to understand? What is so unfeasable about this? Why is this unfair to anybody?
    Waiting lists are dealt with quickly, somehow you are saying that between the time you are put on the waiting list, you will either have moved into the area or will move in between the reception and the signing? How long would you expect the school to hold the place for your convenience?

    As to Discovery College and Renaissance School. They are registered and operated as private independent school and receive no recurring grant from the government hence they are free to do whatever they want just like any other schools. Their programming is also different than regular ESF school which is the reason why they don't have catchment areas. It's perfectly logical and acceptable that they follow different rules...

    With some parents, t's always me, me, me, me when it comes to them. Why can't the whole school system revolve around my life and accommodate my needs...
    dizzydancer2005 likes this.

  5. #15

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    Just to confirm, I am not proposing anyone be bumped ahead of anyone on the waiting lists. Anyone wanting to apply (whether you live in the catchment area or not) starts at the bottom of the list. Then when your turn finally arrives, you either show proof you live in the area or you lose the spot.

    I can only think that people are misunderstanding what I am writing because it is completely logical and sensible and impossible to argue against. Is my writing style so bad?


  6. #16

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    It's very easy to argue against actually. It means more work for the administration, having to hold the place until you prove your residence, possibly having very unpleasant confrontation with parents "just about to move in" and having a whole string of excuses. It's far easier to cut it at the base. You obviously have never had to deal with knucklehead parents... Why go through the possible aggravation to accommodate a few people that may or may not attend the school when it's already running at full capacity with waiting lists? I'd want my employees to be spending most of their time in service of the students/parents we already have instead of the ones that may or may not attend.

    Last edited by gilleshk; 07-01-2011 at 06:51 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:

    I can only think that people are misunderstanding what I am writing because it is completely logical and sensible and impossible to argue against. Is my writing style so bad?
    No - your style is fine and I think your arguments are perfectly reasonable. But then I'm very rational and logical too, and all I see on all threads about children or schools is a huge lack of both. Good luck.

  8. #18

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    I'm sure you are right that its easier to just cut at the base. But this harms the genuine expats who are living overseas, thinking to move to HK, and trying their best to secure a school spot for their kids. This is why current ESF procedure is unfair. They are taking the short cuts. Yes there may be more admin work to do it correctly, but thats what the admin dept is for, no?

    So under ESF logic, expats who are thinking to move to HK have to actually move here first, settle in an area, then apply to only the ESF schools within that area and hope for the best. Whereas from the expats point of view, they would prefer to sort the school before moving, do as much planning before leaving their home country, and make sure their kids are looked after properly.

    Really a very simple change to the ESF application process can make things much fairer for the expat thinking to move to HK. But yes, I do understand why they dont bother because they are already way oversubsribed. If I was a school administrator, Id probably take the short cut too and cross anyone off the list who looked like giving me and kind of headaches

    Last edited by bdw; 07-01-2011 at 07:14 PM.
    TheBrit likes this.

  9. #19

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    Agree bdw, the current system means you have to move to an area, commit to a two year lease then find there is no school place anyway. What are you supposed to do then? Of course the whole issue is that there are not enough places in the international schools.


  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    As to Discovery College and Renaissance School. They are registered and operated as private independent school and receive no recurring grant from the government hence they are free to do whatever they want just like any other schools. Their programming is also different than regular ESF school which is the reason why they don't have catchment areas. It's perfectly logical and acceptable that they follow different rules...
    Back on the DB issue, DB is an isolated community far away from anywhere else in HK. It also happens to have a critical shortage of school places and kids living in DB who would love to go to the DB ESF are instead forced to be bused off to schools far away. At the same time, the DB ESF school is busing kids into DB from far away places.

    DB ESF places zero weight to anyone living in DB. To me this is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the rumors I hear (which I admit are only rumours) that the land they operate on was 'given' to them by the DB community and they dont pay government rates, water rates, etc. They are living off the DB residents but not putting anything back into the DB community. I dont live in DB so its not a me, me, me scenario here. I just think its ridiculous that a school in a place like DB doesnt have a catchment area, when to me this is the one ESF school where it actually makes most sense of all. All these 'business decisions' are great for ESF, but do not help the community and the kids.

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