Like Tree200Likes

How Racist is HK?

Reply
Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 7 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    So UNISON has set up an entire charity for no reason?

    HOW do you expect ethnic minority children to learn Cantonese when none is spoken at home? Do you seriously think that a few hours at kindy is sufficient? If so you appear to be living with your head in the sand.

    And yes, English is no problem if you are a RICH EXPAT who is working in a multi-lingual office (or like me, running a business with entirely english speaking staff) - if you are a school leaver from a poor family who has to go out and get a job - what sort of opportunities are there for them? They are entirely different things.
    This is ridiculous. Why can't they learn Cantonese by spending a few or maybe more hours with locals? Most Chinese people in HK who are fluent in English learn the language not by speaking with their parents or any foreigner. They learn it in schools, by having English lessons - that's not even a few hours a day, maybe a few hours per week. Well maybe they watch some English TV shows or listen to some English music as well.

    If most Chinese in HK manage to learn some English, a FOREIGN language, I don't see any reason why ethnic minorities or any non-Chinese in HK fail to learn Cantonese, the LOCAL language.

  2. #142

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,136
    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:
    This is ridiculous. Why can't they learn Cantonese by spending a few or maybe more hours with locals? Most Chinese people in HK who are fluent in English learn the language not by speaking with their parents or any foreigner. They learn it in schools, by having English lessons - that's not even a few hours a day, maybe a few hours per week. Well maybe they watch some English TV shows or listen to some English music as well.

    If most Chinese in HK manage to learn some English, a FOREIGN language, I don't see any reason why ethnic minorities or any non-Chinese in HK fail to learn Cantonese, the LOCAL language.
    Hold on, wasn't it you who claim Hong Kong is this tolerant multicultural society that allows for non English/Chinese speaker to survive and thrive?

    Any reason why the standards are higher now?

    Last time I checked, you made a comparative case specifically saying France/UK/US aren't places where immigrants who couldn't speak the local language can thrive.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    DUH?
    And how do they do when they don't speak Cantonese.

    There is a major issue for kids (non locals) that do not speak Chinese (by they nepalise, Pakistani, thai, Korean etc etc) and who can't afford International School.

    A few schools in HK run some 6 months programs (what my wife use to run) to help them get the basics and start to go to local schools.

    What you see in your local schools are Pakistani kids who were most likely born in HK and speak Canto.
    Like what I've analyzed in my previous post, the HK model of multi-culturalism already allows people to flourish and earn big bucks in HK without knowing how to speak a single word of the local language. Of course these chances are only reserved for people who can afford international schools, then probably you should ask those people who run international schools why do they charge that much.

    I don't know too much about the education system in the US/UK, but then I would like to ask, how do kids there that do not speak English receive their education?

  4. #144

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    4,164
    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:
    This is ridiculous. Why can't they learn Cantonese by spending a few or maybe more hours with locals? Most Chinese people in HK who are fluent in English learn the language not by speaking with their parents or any foreigner. They learn it in schools, by having English lessons - that's not even a few hours a day, maybe a few hours per week. Well maybe they watch some English TV shows or listen to some English music as well.

    If most Chinese in HK manage to learn some English, a FOREIGN language, I don't see any reason why ethnic minorities or any non-Chinese in HK fail to learn Cantonese, the LOCAL language.
    It's not just learning the language, it's learning to read and write. But that's a moot point on your rant.

    Now English standards have been declining over the years pretty much meaning that school isn't enough. Most do not learn enough here to even attempt basic conversation. Just the way it is. Extremely few local HK'ers are fluent in English, there are more who are good but even then it's not a huge amount of people. Ask them how they became good, school itself is nowhere near enough.

    Your last paragraph. Well where do I start! If most can learn some, why can't the minority learn all?

    That should be If SOME (nowehere near most) can learn some English, an official language (Where TF it came from has no bearing it is official), why can't minorities or any other dirty barbarians (the lot of them) fail to learn Canto, ONE of the local languages.

    However you butter it up it still doesn't teach people how to read and write now. Does it?

  5. #145

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    170

    I always have difficulty understanding the mentality of ethnic minorities in HK or anywhere else. Taking the Indian sub-continent citizens as an example: The vast majority arrive here, dress their traditional costumes, eat their traditional food, speak their languages, segregate themselves in communities, business lobbying, putting little to none efforts to integrate in the local culture or language, then they complain about racism and discrimination. Just don't understand, if these people are so proud of their culture and heritage, why are they here?! Why don't they just stay at their home countries where they belong? Those are just an example of the economic migrants who settle in any developed country just for the $$$ without bothering to give back to the community just by trying to integrate!


  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:
    Like what I've analyzed in my previous post, the HK model of multi-culturalism already allows people to flourish and earn big bucks in HK without knowing how to speak a single word of the local language. Of course these chances are only reserved for people who can afford international schools, then probably you should ask those people who run international schools why do they charge that much.

    I don't know too much about the education system in the US/UK, but then I would like to ask, how do kids there that do not speak English receive their education?
    As an immigrant to Canada, I can perfectly describe my situation.

    When I came to Canada, I was put into an ESL program at my high school, which meant having classes parallel to the local kids. So instead of Grade 9 English, I had Grade 9 English ESL. The reading material was much lighter and the teacher made every effort to speak slower and to ensure that reading comprehension took place. This was done for all subjects that required reading comprehension, such as history, geography, and science, but for example in PE and Maths, I went straight in with the local kids. As my English improved, I was then slowly moved in with the local kids. First science, then geography and history, and at last English. ESL kids had an extra room that was there for them to get additional help resources. There was usually an ESL teacher on duty who was able to help with homework/reading/assignments. I transitioned through this program very quickly as I immigrated from German and had already received formal education in English. Nonetheless, this program was still helpful for me as it made the transition of joining local kids very smooth. Kids from third-world countries, ie Somalia, Eritrea, etc, usually stayed in the program for several years as they usually didn't have prior education in English. Canada does really well of integrating migrants from third world countries. Many of my friends in Toronto are of mixed marriages and many succeeded in climbing the social ladder within one single generation. Some of their parents have very poor English but their kid's English is exceptional. This is due to an exceptional ESL program.

    In 2013, crime stats in Canada reached an all-time low, which put the crime rate at a level not seen since 1969. If third-world migration were such a horrible thing, Canada wouldn't rank top in the world in many social indicators, but it does.
    Last edited by civil_servant; 27-09-2016 at 02:44 PM.

  7. #147

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    4,164
    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    As an immigrant to Canada, I can perfectly describe my situation.

    When I came to Canada, I was put into an ESL program at my high school, which meant having classes parallel to the local kids. So instead of Grade 9 English, I had Grade 9 English ESL. The reading material was much lighter and the teacher made every effort to speak slower and to ensure that reading comprehension took place. This was done for all subjects that required reading comprehension, such as history, geography, and science, but for example in PE and Maths, I went straight in with the local kids. As my English improved, I was then slowly moved in with the local kids. First science, then geography and history, and at last English. ESL kids had an extra room that was there for them to get additional help resources. There was usually an ESL teacher on duty who was able to help with homework/reading/assignments. I transitioned through this program very quickly as I immigrated from German and had already received formal education in English. Nonetheless, this program was still helpful for me as it made the transition of joining local kids very smooth. Kids from third-world countries, ie Somalia, Eritrea, etc, usually stayed in the program for several years as they usually didn't have prior education in English. Canada does really well of integrating migrants from third world countries. Many of my friends in Toronto are of mixed marriages and many succeeded in climbing the social ladder within one single generation. Some of their parents have very poor English but their kid's English is exceptional. This is due to an exceptional ESL program.

    In 2013, crime stats in Canada reached an all-time low, which put the crime rate at a level not seen since 1969. If third-worl migration were such a horrible thing, Canada wouldn't rank top in the world in many social indicators, but it does.
    SOME, and I do emphasise the SOME, schools here also have a similar approach with an NCS stream. It's good but it isn't the territory wide standard. It is however inclusive.

  8. #148

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    12,060
    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:

    I don't know too much about the education system in the US/UK, but then I would like to ask, how do kids there that do not speak English receive their education?
    The school or the state lays on special tuition to bring the non English speakers up to speed. With teachers who specialise in this.

    HONG KONG DOES NOT DO THIS. This is the problem.

  9. #149

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    12,060
    Quote Originally Posted by HKSAR:
    I always have difficulty understanding the mentality of ethnic minorities in HK or anywhere else. Taking the Indian sub-continent citizens as an example: The vast majority arrive here, dress their traditional costumes, eat their traditional food, speak their languages, segregate themselves in communities, business lobbying, putting little to none efforts to integrate in the local culture or language, then they complain about racism and discrimination. Just don't understand, if these people are so proud of their culture and heritage, why are they here?! Why don't they just stay at their home countries where they belong? Those are just an example of the economic migrants who settle in any developed country just for the $$$ without bothering to give back to the community just by trying to integrate!
    It takes two to tango. Nobody in HK offers a helping hand. Cantonese is a VERY hard language to learn. If you can't get over that barrier, what choice to you have but to rely on others from your own community for support?

  10. #150

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,136
    Quote Originally Posted by HKSAR:
    then they complain about racism and discrimination.
    Hold on, who is complaining about racism and discrimination? I haven't seen minorities here complain about racism and discrimination. Even as we say they're underprivileged and segregated, nobody is saying they're being discriminated against. The minority issue was one of those split topics that were stirred up from one of Kungpao's comparison related but separate from the opening post itself.

Reply
Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 7 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ... LastLast