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How Racist is HK?

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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Plenty of Chinese who speak very poor French (or English) in French Chinatown / US town Chinatown. So you can also live in those country without assimilating to the dominant culture. Plenty of Mexican who don't speak much English in the southern part of the US too.
    Plenty of Chinese can't speak French properly in places like Torcy, Paris eh?
    That's a neighbourhood I am very familiar with and my experience has been quite different.

    Every body I have come across spoke conversationally fluent. Street French, including the guys at the, Peking duck shop. I usually visit when I am in town. Maybe not the stick up bum, academic/formal, French that the bourgeois speak, but, perfectly good, everyday, man on the street, French.

    That goes for my many Vietnamese friends in Paris and in Brussels, totally fluent in the local lingua franca, including Flemish /Dutch, English and German in my top mate, Phuc's, case.

    My biggest surprise was when picking up a much larger car to drive to Nice in, from the enterprise car hire booth at cdg airport last stay. Meeting an Australian, from St Kilda, hand over the car, who spoke better French than you type English, and he'd only started living there 2 years ago, married to a French citizen.

    It's not the same thing, in my opinion, as majority of non native French citizens do speak the local language, just fine.

    I include 8 members of my own family that are Italian nationals, who have lived in France for over 3 decades, one even worked quite high up for the, French ministry for defence, providing the armed security detail that protected arms shipments internationally.

    The opportunities are the same for everyone, providing you have a good work ethic, a willingness to not rock the boat, minding your own business and willingness to succeed, in a liberal, Western, country.

    I would say that Italy and Greece would be much tougher for newly arrived immigrants to fit in, culturally, certainly harder in regard to patience and tolerance. Just read the racist graffiti sprayed on walls these days, and the heated arguments on the news between the people and government officials on the nightly news toward immigrants from African nations. Pretty angry stuff...
    Last edited by Skyhook; 15-09-2016 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:
    I think it is hard to say which one is better. You can even say that HK is the real multi-culturalism.
    They practice what they preach in Chinatowns the world over...generalising of course, but the HK community abroad tends to work hard, stick together but demand very little from the host...I would argue that they give more than they take.

    Resentment builds when immigrant communities take more than they give and demand special treatment from the majority. It's really that simple.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Plenty of Chinese can't speak French properly in places like Torcy, Paris eh?
    That's a neighbourhood I am very familiar with and my experience has been quite different.

    Every body I have come across spoke conversationally fluent. Street French, including the guys at the, Peking duck shop. I usually visit when I am in town. Maybe not the stick up bum, academic/formal, French that the bourgeois speak, but, perfectly good, everyday, man on the street, French.

    That goes for my many Vietnamese friends in Paris and in Brussels, totally fluent in the local lingua franca, including Flemish /Dutch, English and German in my top mate, Phuc's, case.

    My biggest surprise was when picking up a much larger car to drive to Nice in, from the enterprise car hire booth at cdg airport last stay. Meeting an Australian, from St Kilda, hand over the car, who spoke better French than you type English, and he'd only started living there 2 years ago, married to a French citizen.

    It's not the same thing, in my opinion, as majority of non native French citizens do speak the local language, just fine.

    I include 8 members of my own family that are Italian nationals, who have lived in France for over 3 decades, one even worked quite high up for the, French ministry for defence, providing the armed security detail that protected arms shipments internationally.

    The opportunities are the same for everyone, providing you have a good work ethic, a willingness to not rock the boat, minding your own business and willingness to succeed, in a liberal, Western, country.

    I would say that Italy and Greece would be much tougher for newly arrived immigrants to fit in, culturally, certainly harder in regard to patience and tolerance. Just read the racist graffiti sprayed on walls these days, and the heated arguments on the news between the people and government officials on the nightly news toward immigrants from African nations. Pretty angry stuff...
    No need to write such a long post to say you disagree and try to have a go at my English.
    Save time, I know you can do it in less than two lines :-)

    And yes many Chinese in France speaks very basic French...but far from very good or fluent French. I have (and used to have) French Chinese friends and their parents (who flew usually away from China/Cambodia/Vietnam) used to speak very basic French.

    And yes millions speak perfect French.

    The point was only to highlight that you can live in France, without necessarily speaking fluent French (Hell was watching an episode of Gordon's Kitchen Nightmare recently...a few brits settled in France for over 10 years and were running a restaurant and the head chef...couldn't go to a market and buy food as he didn't know the names in French of most of the product..). it's of course a hell of a lot better, but as proven by some, it's possible.

    As for the opportunities are the same for everyone....you do live in a bubble....try to go to Trappes once and you tell me what you see....Sure it's not Eze Bord de mer 10km from Monaco....

    As for Graffiti, plenty of racist ones in the UK, Germany, France etc so no quite sure about your point here.

    Anyway, happy moon cake festival.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    No need to write such a long post to say you disagree and try to have a go at my English.
    Save time, I know you can do it in less than two lines :-)

    And yes many Chinese in France speaks very basic French...but far from very good or fluent French. I have (and used to have) French Chinese friends and their parents (who flew usually away from China/Cambodia/Vietnam) used to speak very basic French.

    And yes millions speak perfect French.

    The point was only to highlight that you can live in France, without necessarily speaking fluent French (Hell was watching an episode of Gordon's Kitchen Nightmare recently...a few brits settled in France for over 10 years and were running a restaurant and the head chef...couldn't go to a market and buy food as he didn't know the names in French of most of the product..). it's of course a hell of a lot better, but as proven by some, it's possible.

    As for the opportunities are the same for everyone....you do live in a bubble....try to go to Trappes once and you tell me what you see....Sure it's not Eze Bord de mer 10km from Monaco....

    As for Graffiti, plenty of racist ones in the UK, Germany, France etc so no quite sure about your point here.

    Anyway, happy moon cake festival.
    I said survive “and flourish”. If you don’t know English in US/UK or French in France, you are stuck in your “hood” (Chinatown etc) forever. Probably not even a chance of a white collar job. Contrast that with expats in HK (or Asia in general)?

    The examples Skyhook gave just prove my point. You have to be "conversationally fluent", even in a Peking duck shop. It's already a big step towards integration and assimilation. The conversationally fluent immigrant's children is very likely going to be just as "native" as the locals.
    Skyhook likes this.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:

    Anyway, happy moon cake festival.
    And happy mid autumn festival to you and your family too.

    I'll be sure to visit Trappes, next summer, to get an idea of what you mean. Agree also that lots of Bits, those I came across in St Gilles Croix de vie and Calais, didn't speak French.

    So I see what you mean.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by kungpaochicken:
    Contrast that with expats in HK (or Asia in general)?
    Don't confuse expat with immigrant. Expats in most places aren't required to learn the language. They're usually temporarily relocated for a very specific purpose.
    TheBrit and Creative83 like this.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    Don't confuse expat with immigrant. Expats in most places aren't required to learn the language. They're usually temporarily relocated for a very specific purpose.
    Going back to the word, "flourish" is where it really breaks down.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    Don't confuse expat with immigrant. Expats in most places aren't required to learn the language. They're usually temporarily relocated for a very specific purpose.
    I see your point but I don't believe it's as simple as 'expat' or immigrant' in Hong Kong. Everyone who's been here for any length of time knows how easy it is to suddenly have a decade behind you...how long until you stop being an 'expat'?

    I also know plenty of people who's kids were born here and are now teenagers who don't speak Cantonese...and I don't think it's that unusual here.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHairy:
    I see your point but I don't believe it's as simple as 'expat' or immigrant' in Hong Kong. Everyone who's been here for any length of time knows how easy it is to suddenly have a decade behind you...how long until you stop being an 'expat'?

    I also know plenty of people who's kids were born here and are now teenagers who don't speak Cantonese...and I don't think it's that unusual here.
    The current argument here is based on kungpao's post who claims that Hong Kong integration (knowing its local language) isn't necessary for them to survive and flourish relative to say France/UK/US.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creative83:
    The current argument here is based on kungpao's post who claims that Hong Kong integration (knowing its local language) isn't necessary for them to survive and flourish relative to say France/UK/US.
    I don't see any argument and I certainly don't want to be involved in one.

    Hong Kong is fairly unique in that it uses English as a parallel language.

    Let me give you an example of the difference: I lived in Denmark for one year, after one year I could communicate in Danish, ditto Sweden and Swedish...why? Because you really can't function properly, longer term without learning the local language, it's that simple.
    Skyhook likes this.

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