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How much racism in HK?

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  1. #91

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    Just to share a little story although not quite on topic. Last year I was helping my 10 year nephew for his interview for secondary school. He was born in China. The school had provided some sample questions that he might be asked. One was 'have you visited any other country'. He said no. I said but you have been to China. His reply came quickly. ' But HK is China'.


  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMDNC:
    While I don't doubt some actions toward you may be aggregious, you really should try to understand cultural norms that are second nature to locals. It would help you to succed in THIS environment as you are not in your home country where the expectations are different. So a local may look at you and say this gwelo feels entitled to do whatever he wants and then you are no longer in the innner circle at your place of employment. If a HKer or a Mainlander went to New York and didn't find his niche or work thier way into the ole boy's circle, don't you think that would affect his or her career trajectory? So why do you feel entitled? Because you are white? Give me a break. Its not their racism toward you. Its about fitting in and talking the chip off your shoulder IMO.

    BTW I post this as a constructive way for you to look at things from a different angle not to shit on you so don't take my opinion and suggestion the wrong way. Also, Mainlanders, unlike some but not all HKers, tend to be elitist in their thinking and are not going to acquiese to Western tendencies and norms. You need to accept that if you want to work here or find a platform to operate from where Westerners dominate.
    I wonder where in my post I came across as entitled. I just described how mainland bosses are racist towards gwailo. You may notice that I had a grin in my post about the former president of Singapore, and an LOL about the comment of the other wanker who said "it's ok not to be Chinese". I still find that comment extremely hilarious. The fact that I look down on both of them (the president and the wanker) doesn't mean that I fee entitled.

    Yes, I realise that much comes down to cultural differences, as I wrote myself in post #90. And by the way, I don't think expecting the president of a country to shake the hand of a guy has anything to do with feeling entitled. Entitled to what? Dealing with a polite person?

  3. #93

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    As I said "I don't doubt some actions toward you may be aggregious" I think you are fighting some serious chemistry, perception and cultural issues than cannot be overcome as an outsider. And, even if your gripes are legitimate (which we will assume they are), HK is not a place where someone will stick their neck out for someone else even if they agreed with you. While you expect or feel entitled that this should not happen to you, it is. I'm not hear to debate you. Only offered my feedback. IMO, it would be easier if you found the proper "fit" whether it be a more Westernized local environment or back home.


  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMDNC:
    As I said "I don't doubt some actions toward you may be aggregious" I think you are fighting some serious chemistry, perception and cultural issues than cannot be overcome as an outsider. And, even if your gripes are legitimate (which we will assume they are), HK is not a place where someone will stick their neck out for someone else even if they agreed with you. While you expect or feel entitled that this should not happen to you, it is. I'm not hear to debate you. Only offered my feedback. IMO, it would be easier if you found the proper "fit" whether it be a more Westernized local environment or back home.
    I have heard similar arguments from racists in the UK.

    It is a two way situation. I have read nothing in the OP's posts that says "entitlement". Unless of course you are just assuming all white people feel entitled?

  5. #95

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    OP knows best but statement about non-Chinese speaking and no China research could be cultural way of suggesting the OP learn the language and broaden the scope of his work. Remember, Chinese may be less direct than Westerners. HK is on an accelerated pace of being integrated to the Mainland. I assume in academia, English is the operating language. It is for other fields as well but the inability to speak Mandarin or lack of a network in China can also limit people in other fields. Banking is a good example. Are Westerners as relevant today as they were pre-1997?

    On “don’t worry, its OK not be Chinese,” its not necessarily a negative statement. Subject to how you receive it. Just means don’t worry about being blackballed due to differences.

    The same statements could have been made to a person of non-Chinese East Asian descent IMO.

    Again, chemistry and “fit” issues happen in any workplace. Chemistry is just not there for whatever reason. You see this in corporate situations were two people may be vying for a promotion. Inevitably the person who is not promoted leaves on his own volition or is redeployed.

    IF someone from China worked in NYC and refused to learn English or focus on US domestic subject matters, I think the duration of their employment would have some finite limit. IMO, the person from China should not feel entitled for any attempts not to redeploy him or her or make her redundant. If that happened I don't see how it can be construed as racist. It would be laughable for him or her to cry racial discrimination.

    It certainly must be a frustrating situation. The best action is to change environment IMO.

    Last edited by RMDNC; 06-10-2020 at 01:17 PM.

  6. #96

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    Ain't nobody lecturing. Read my words: giving opinion it can be viewed from different lens and I already said OP probably knows best. And what is it that gives you crediblity to determine who is qualified to opine and to rank opinions? That is arrogant. I'm rooting for the OP just as you are.

    Last edited by RMDNC; 06-10-2020 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #97

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    White males can have a moment, too


  8. #98

  9. #99

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    personal experience

    I wouldn't raise my kids in HK unless I could provide them a sequestered environment like in Discovery Bay and ensure they study in international schools. Children shouldn't be expected to 'man up and take it' and suffering from racism can affect kids' development in negative ways.

    I say this because I'm a former kid myself who has learned to mind my own business as much as possible. Even after all these years, I cannot love or accept racism but I can try to avoid putting myself in situations where I might face it. Some people talk about trains and busses; my solution is to never sit when I'm on one. Some people talk about not getting attention from staff at restaurants or stores; my solution is to shop at big brand foreign stores like Uniqlo and to avoid eating at local mom-and-pop establishments as much as possible. All of this isn't ideal. If the OP has an option, then he or she should do what's going to be in the long-term interests of their children.

    A few days ago I was eating a snack (not a full meal) alone underneath the WanChai bridge that connects to the Immigration building. People who live in HK would know the area under the bridge is a pretty popular public place and lots of people eat, drink, sleep, and chat there. As I said earlier, I try to not do anything that can attract negative attention. Snack in one hand, phone in the other - and I made sure to stand at a distance and face away from the pavement so that no one could possibly get affected by my potentially covid-ridden breath. This happened some time around afternoon. I was not drinking or acting like a 'public nuisance' or talking loudly on my phone. Dressed quite normally for a weekend: sports pants and t-shirt and no bag. I was not being messy - the snack was in a small paper bag.

    I was startled (to say the least) when three coppers (two in uniform and one in plain clothes) accosted me from behind and demanded to see ID. I gave them the ID immediately. While one was inspecting(?!) ID, the other jerked forward suddenly and patted me down. He did not inform me (I know he doesn't need permission) before doing so even though police guidelines say he needs to announce his intentions in order to not alarm the civilian. At this point, I was getting pretty nervous so I ask them why they're investigating me and not the numerous others also chilling in the vicinity. Police guidelines say cops need to be reasonably suspicious before they engage in a stop-and-search. He volunteered himself this absolutely rational piece of wisdom: "people who look like you commit more crimes, that's why I have to investigate you. You know we caught a brown skin guy today morning". By now, you've probably deduced the only reason I looked suspicious to the cops is because I'm brown-skinned. Police guidelines also suggest an escalation hierarchy with ID check at the bottom, followed by verbal questioning, followed by physical search. They had, of course, decided to give me the full monty from the very beginning.

    Then they asked me for my wallet. So I emptied my wallet and handed it over. Emptied my pockets too. The tirade from the plain-clothes cop continued however. Here are some other nuggets:

    "I don't want to be here today, I want to be in my office, but I am here because I need to protect Hong Kong people" - never mind the fact that I have PR but I know that's not enough to make me a hongkonger

    "don't get nervous haha. you're shaking haha" - never knew getting harassed by three people with guns is supposed to be a funny situation

    TLDR: don't bring your kids here if you're not white or east asian and rich. That doesn't mean adults don't get affected by the insidious racism in this society but they can always be told to 'man up' by a few inconsiderate pricks on this forum.

    Last edited by hhku; 27-10-2020 at 07:12 AM.
    TheBrit, cookie09, shri and 2 others like this.

  10. #100

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    Having money should take care of most discrimination. But equally important is looking like you have it. These stop-and-searchers employ some very questionable heuristics when selecting 'suspicious' individuals and sometimes you're just unlucky.

    RMDNC and seirin like this.

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