Like Tree160Likes

Travelling to the UK during this pandemic.

Reply
Page 5 of 20 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 ... LastLast
  1. #41

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wrong side of the door to hell
    Posts
    6,089

    I flew to the UK in mid July. Plane nearly full, but Heathrow, the underground and central London quiet. Travelled on to France for 2 months, rural location (the only department in all of France that Belgium says its citizens can visit because 0 people in hospital and only a handful of cases) . Masking wearing & social distancing hit and miss everywhere, despite the rules.

    Flew back to HK 2 weeks ago (last 12 hours of quarantine!) flight was very quiet, most had a row of seats to themselves. London still quiet - except for the roadworks, which the councils seem to have gone into with full steam due to the reduced traffic.

    No test required flying in to Heathrow from Hong Kong. Passport control was very quick, although I arrived at 5am so few flights entering.

    I can't see the point in travelling to anywhere for sightseeing at the moment though. London is very quiet, guess you could look at the sights, or rent a holiday cottage and breath some fresh air. But tourism/shopping/dining as not anywhere near the level it was. Re safety, we operated on strict social distancing / mask wearing / hand washing protocols. Didn't go anywhere crowded. Getting COVID is not a certainty even in the likes of France with 10-15k cases a day, but if you can't follow simple rules then of course your risk profile is higher.

    Flying again in 10 days to UK, then on to France with the family. Needs must and we will negotiate the trip with extra vigilance, but not fear. Life goes on, tourism / trips out of boredom can perhaps wait.

    shri, pin, Tadashi and 4 others like this.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    11,493
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    At the end of the day, Australasia has tended to err on the side of caution regarding health. It will take years before we can look back and see the full picture of deaths vs economic and social repercussions and I'm sure there will continue to be many different opinions depending on what people value most.
    From the perspective of looking at Australia, I would disagree with this. Australia has kept schools open, has kept most businesses open, the national and state governments have been keenly aware of economic impacts.

    Off memory, Australia only went into serious quarantine mode for new arrivals about 2 months ago. This is where Victoria went out of step with the other states and screwed up big time, with poorly trained private security firms instead of police enforcing hotel quarantines. Which led to subsequent harder lockdowns across chunks of the state, and much more obvious economic impacts.

    IMO the big difference is that the government has provided reasonably consistent, if at times not totally clear (there have been waffley messages about 'sensible precautions' and refusal to define 'sensible' from politicians) messaging. Versus the crazy backflipping antics seen over in the UK about mask usage, don't-go-out-but-here's-a-voucher-for-restaurants, pubs are fine if they close at 10pm, herd immunity but not herd immunity, PM's PR man driving across the length of the country during isolation periods.

    Australia hasn't been erring on the side of anything, and they have certainly had their share of massive cockups (e.g passenger ships disembarking in the middle of Sydney), they've just been pretty steady instead of changing their mind every news cycle.

    But if you're saying "someone somewhere is going to disagree with the any government decision regardless" and "people have difference ways of assessing an economic impact analysis" well then yeah, that's true everywhere. And also kind of too obvious to be worth mentioning.
    Last edited by jgl; 24-09-2020 at 01:08 PM.
    TheBrit, Sage, AsianXpat0 and 2 others like this.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,762

    Re 'flip-flopping' the UK messaging is definitely complex but people have to remember that it's generally good strategy to respond to changing dynamics and the changing understanding of science; though there is of course a need to not change 'too much'.

    There are also different priorities in strategies that many people seem to completely miss. If you think the only strategy is 'not get covid' then you're going around with your eyes shut.

    A lot of people would/do actually welcome getting C19, knowing that the far more likely outcome is asymptomatic or mild symptoms and immunity - which includes immunity from everyone else's fear, not just immunity to covid.

    Take masks for example, there has been some good evidence very recently that has established that wearing masks significantly reduces the amount of virus that you inhale which is directly proportional to the severity of the level of covid you develop. We've 'known; for some time that severity is very likely linked to viral load be we have better proof of that now.

    This does NOT mean that no masks = severe covid, it means that if you are at high risk of severe covid though your health profile, you could reduce that risk significantly by getting infected whilst wearing a mask.... or, of course, by avoiding any immune response at all..

    OR it means that if you're low risk, the optimal scenario may well be getting a low dose of covid from someone else wearing a mask so you can move on with your life.

    We already know that far far more people have immunity (and have had covid) than the official results show, so there is a lot to be said for this strategy.

    If you're naturally risk averse and in a high risk category, you will no doubt argue that people need "MORE MASK WEARING", but if you're honest, you're only really addressing your own scenario and attempting to lever that on others.

    If you're low risk, again you may well be acting with your own self interests first, but you may see the new evidence on mask wearing as a reasonable case to not wear a mask, on the assumption that others will be - you want s.o.m.e exposure, just not zero/ /very little / high level exposure.

    So if everyone is already wearing masks, maybe some of those who are low risk, can practice less masking. If few people are wearing masks, maybe even the low risk should mask up more often.

    Of course it's impossible to measure what your exposure will be in any interaction, but many people can and do go with their gut feeling on this and by looking at the big picture rather than obsessing about the minutiae of every possible outcome.

    That the vast majority are unaffected by contracting covid in any serious way will always underscore the logic behind a more pragmatic response.

    If you're high risk of course, stay masked, stay home, wait for the vaccine and understand that what's right for you isn't automatically right for everyone else.

    Game theory is alive and well, even with regards to covid.

    Last edited by Sage; 24-09-2020 at 01:43 PM.
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,762
    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:

    I have good, otherwise very sensible (generally more sensible than me), friends over there who have been doing things like going to Spain on holiday. I take this to mean that the total lack of consistent messaging has done a very good job of utterly confusing the population..
    Do you mean 'sensible' or 'cautious'?

    I think it's an obvious mistake to assume that going on holiday to Spain must make bad sense and they're only doing so because they have a poor comprehension of risk thanks to Bojo and Cummings.

    Everyone has different priorities and risk tolerances.

  5. #45

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    4,061

    Pretty futile attempts to make this a political issue for the UK.

    I'm no Tory but have lived through countless Labour governments that have screwed up the UK. The only exception I can think of was the first few New Labour years.
    I'm seeing nothing constructive from Labour during Covid.

    Politics did NOT get the UK into the COVID mess they are now in. The flip flopping hasn't helped but the sheer selfishness of people is the MAJOR factor.

    In the early days on here I was part of a large anti mask brigade and we saw similar behaviour in public.Reasoned debate has changed us original doubters. In the UK the more rules put in, masks or otherwise, the more polarised the antis are becoming


  6. #46

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    23,342
    Quote Originally Posted by ByeByeEngland:
    Pretty futile attempts to make this a political issue for the UK.

    I'm no Tory but have lived through countless Labour governments that have screwed up the UK.
    The only person making this party political is you. Nobody brought up past records of any Tory or Labour Government as it's completely irrelevant to how much this Government has screwed up.
    hullexile and jdf21st like this.

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Beautiful Britain
    Posts
    1,932
    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    I can think of 40000+ reasons not to go to the UK at this time.
    I think there is a need to recognise that UK is not HK. Not everyone lives in London! (like most foreigners seem to think - How many times when you say you are from UK the first response is 'you live in London?')

    Much of the UK is rural or semi rural. There is space, I can go through my general day without getting near anyone for most of the day.

    Also someone commented about local lockdowns in UK - Well HK has been 'locked down' for 8 months so far', HK is essential in a local lock down in terms of the country it is in.

    I think one of the big differences between HK and UK has been extreme border controls/No border control.

    When it comes down to it you can take responsibility for your own safety. However, I admit it is easier for someone like me as I am retired and can plan/control my movements, activities to minimise risk.

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Beautiful Britain
    Posts
    1,932
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    I am still trying to get my head around closing bars early at 10pm. So everyone can gather from lunchtime until 10pm fine but after 10pm its a definite no. Does the virus come out after 10pm?

    The other example doing the rounds is that 7 children are not allowed to gather to feed the ducks but 30 adults can to shoot the ducks.
    This exact same comment was made about HK when they had early closing. In HK the virus came out after 6pm!

  9. #49

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    4,061
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    The only person making this party political is you. Nobody brought up past records of any Tory or Labour Government as it's completely irrelevant to how much this Government has screwed up.
    Says the person consistently flaming Boris not just on this thread but numerous Covid discussions relating to UK for months, not just weeks or days. Wouldn’t be anything to do with lingering Brexit grudges would it?

    It detracts from the main point I made which is the selfish behaviour of the idiots that have got the UK into the position it is in and until that changes nothing will change

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Beautiful Britain
    Posts
    1,932
    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    I have good, otherwise very sensible (generally more sensible than me), friends over there who have been doing things like going to Spain on holiday. I take this to mean that the total lack of consistent messaging has done a very good job of utterly confusing the population.
    Well if they were sensible they'd make their own decisions. I choose not to listen to politicians but use common sense. I managed a perfectly safe 6 weeks holiday in Greece, far more distanced than anything I could have done in HK. People who blame the government for confusing them need to start using their brains!
    Sage and HK_Katherine like this.

Reply
Page 5 of 20 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 ... LastLast