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Travelling to the UK during this pandemic.

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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Of the 2,000 deaths a day how many are from contagious causes? I am guessing most are heart failure, cardiac arrests, cancer. So the risk of catching those on a trip to the UK is zero.

    Of course no one should be thinking just about death. A few weeks in ICU is not fun. Permanent lung damage is not great.
    You'll have to dig into the data and find out; when you're dealing with people in the age range of those dying with covid there is seldom a single cause of course.

    Influenza and pneumonia are both common killers of the elderly as are other respiratory infections alongside a more general suite of infections that are common in hospitals.

    If those that die everyday hadn't also had cancer, or heart disease, or stroke or emphysema or bronchitis, or asthma, or diabetes or compromised immunity (as every elderly person has to some degree) would they still die from colds and flu or any other one of their conditions?
    Common medical care doesn't try to answer that, and so it is with covid.

    So yes, of course there is risk, my point is always to put that risk in perspective.

    If the question was: My 80yr old mother who has 2 stents, an artificial hip and who had a mild stroke last year wants to go sightseeing in London next week, it would be a very different risk assessment.

    But it's not.

    46k vs 239 are simply the facts, those facts don't dictate a risk policy to everyone equally. But they do suggest a virtually risk free scenario for 'two little girls'
    rathunt and HK_Katherine like this.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    You'll have to dig into the data and find out; when you're dealing with people in the age range of those dying with covid there is seldom a single cause of course.

    Influenza and pneumonia are both common killers of the elderly as are other respiratory infections alongside a more general suite of infections that are common in hospitals.

    If those that die everyday hadn't also had cancer, or heart disease, or stroke or emphysema or bronchitis, or asthma, or diabetes or compromised immunity (as every elderly person has to some degree) would they still die from colds and flu or any other one of their conditions?
    Common medical care doesn't try to answer that, and so it is with covid.

    So yes, of course there is risk, my point is always to put that risk in perspective.

    If the question was: My 80yr old mother who has 2 stents, an artificial hip and who had a mild stroke last year wants to go sightseeing in London next week, it would be a very different risk assessment.

    But it's not.

    46k vs 239 are simply the facts, those facts don't dictate a risk policy to everyone equally. But they do suggest a virtually risk free scenario for 'two little girls'
    A long winded way of saying "it's just the flu".

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    That just means that other areas are much worse than the average.

    I am not saying that there isn't a problem in the UK. My point was that there are plenty of safe places here too.

    Not everyone lives in London, or Leicester or Birmingham. You said there are 40,000 reasons not to go to the UK. I say where I live (for example) is as safe or possibly safer than HK. No crowded MTR, shopping malls, streets. We have big super markets, wide isles, sparsely populated countryside. I can also jump in my car and drive hundreds miles in safety to enjoy completely empty countryside.
    Sage likes this.

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Of the 2,000 deaths a day how many are from contagious causes? I am guessing most are heart failure, cardiac arrests, cancer. So the risk of catching those on a trip to the UK is zero.

    Of course no one should be thinking just about death. A few weeks in ICU is not fun. Permanent lung damage is not great.
    Doesn’t even have to be ICU - 3-4 weeks of feeling ill at home so you can’t work and struggle to meet caring obligations for children or elderly relatives. Multiply that by thousands of people across the country. COVID doesn’t have to kill you to cause disruption to your health and ability to earn a living.

    I also feel for the people who face long term chronic symptoms after COVID and will have to battle for the NHS’s limited resources to get care.
    hullexile and Mrs. Jones like this.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Yeah, the UK is just weird. It's such a total mess of senseless advice and mixed messages.
    [...] I take this to mean that the total lack of consistent messaging has done a very good job of utterly confusing the population.
    That is my impression too. Take what Boris Johnson said just yesterday in parliament (which of course got a lot of resonance in the Italian press).

    In response to a question in the UK parliament about whether lower Covid-19 infection rates in Italy and Germany were due to them having test and trace systems that work, Johnson had replied that Britain was “a freedom-loving country and if you look at the history in this country in the last 300 years, virtually every advance, from freedom of speech to democracy, has come from this”.



    That sends a very confusing message... Should freedom loving people oppose to test and trace? Are wearing a mask and following rules marks of a totalitarian state? Should Britons then take pride in their current virus situation and wear it as a badge of honor?
    That can’t be helping.


    It’s also nonsense: it is exactly because they wear masks and learned how to do test and trace that Italians and Germans can, at the moment, go on living their life without major restrictions, lockdowns, or travel issues... in a word, freely.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...9-restrictions

    hullexile and AsianXpat0 like this.

  6. #76

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    If individuals want to make a trip to the UK and take on the anticipated risk for themselves go ahead and roll the dice. Where I would advise extra attention is knowing whether the return journey is potentially going to present problems. I have an apartment in London and still not making the trip to the UK. (Still paying the bills though). On the other hand, if I was that youngster mentioned above who had a post-grad place at Oxford, for sure I would be on the next plane!


  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by walkup:
    If individuals want to make a trip to the UK and take on the anticipated risk for themselves go ahead and roll the dice.
    Agreed, but even well intentioned 'roll the dice' implies a 1:6 chance of something bad; even if you're a games freak and imagine an icosahedron, 1:20 massively overstates the potential downside. The real risk is way way way lower.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    COVID doesn’t have to kill you to cause disruption to your health and ability to earn a living.
    Couldn't have said it better myself; billions of people negatively affected by policies for a virus that is non-existent or mild for the vast majority infected.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    Couldn't have said it better myself; billions of people negatively affected by policies for a virus that is non-existent or mild for the vast majority infected.
    Guess you’re packing up and moving to Brazil? That’s what most of the world (which is not rich like Europe) looks like when coronavirus runs freely.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    Couldn't have said it better myself; billions of people negatively affected by policies for a virus that is non-existent or mild for the vast majority infected.
    Didn't an orange president say something similar recently?

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