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stop and search - can you refuse?

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  1. #21

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    To be fair, I have been stopped only once, about 8 years ago but if I were in their place and saw me walking down the street at the time, I would've stopped me. You can call it criminal profiling, II-profiling or what have you, but I am fairly certain that it was not racial profiling. Must have been my lousy choice of attire.

    The experienced officers it seems have learned to tell the difference between those ethnic minorities who appear to be ordinary, law-abiding citizens/residents and those who match the visual profile of over-stayers/illegals. Further to this, I see ID checks being carried out on Chinese youth who fall within the age group described by Skyhook and, several times dodgy-looking mainlanders pulled aside for a check.

    Last edited by Dreadnought; 27-08-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    Sure but I have NEVER been stopped for an ID check, let alone searched, in 3 years. It's just plain unfair to stop someone JUST because they are black. That's not profiling. It may be in immigration - on the streets that's pure racism.
    Look up at the definition of profiling and you will see that it is used by all types of law enforcement agencies. It is unfair but not always illegal in itself though some places now have laws aimed at curtailing this practice. Ask any black man in America if they've ever been stopped by traffic police in a white neighborhood... They used to refer it as "driving while black or brown"...

    Racial Profiling

    It is also equally unfair to paint all of HK as being racist as you clearly did on your post and is somewhat ironic when complaining about such an incident.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Unless the cops were rude, or abusive, I dont see what the problem is. If the cops are working on a hunch, let them check. Its no skin off my nose, and If I was a cop I would do the exact same thing.. But if you want to have a big cry and let the crims run a muck, then so be it....

    You don't know how good you got it, until the sooks brick the police force here, like they did in the UK and AUS..

    Let the cops do their job, they do an awesome job here, and are reputedly one of the best police forces in the world.

    I'll take their side, especially when more than one set of cops have searched this particular guy.

    i will retract my comment however, if it happened to be the same coppers, pulling this black guy up, then sure, the guys being victimised. Maybe the guy dresses like a rapper or has a mohawk, or he wears stereotypical loud jewellery, we don't know what the guy looks like, and doubt it is just because he looks black...

    I'd say it is because he looks young, wears bling and fits their profile to check ...

    It will be a very sad day if the cops here, cant act on a hunch, regardless if it hurts the feelings of a few, for 5 minutes of their time.

    I had no idea that Shenzen drug mules were so well paid that they could afford bling, but for the record - the cops *were* rude and abusive, he isn't young, he doesn't wear 'loud jewellery' or 'dress like a rapper' and if they 'had a hunch' they were required by law to tell him what it was. They couldn't tell him what it was because they didn't have one. I find it extremely hard to believe that in the 40 seconds it took to get to PnS from our apartment that he could have done anything that would have justified any suspicion on their part. It's not like we live in Chungking Mansions ffs.

    ID checks I don't have an issue with - but searching someone without giving them a reason is illegal. The police are not above the law.
    Last edited by jenifa; 27-08-2010 at 06:41 PM.
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  4. #24

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    my husband, a local, has gotten stopped at least once every couple of months since he was a teen. there is NOTHING about him that suggests he is (1) a drug runner; (2) an ethnic minority II; (3) a mainland II; (4) getting into trouble or (5) doing anything suspicious at all.

    it's just part and parcel of living in hk, he says. he's quite happy to provide the info requested as he believes, it helps keep the streets relatively clean and safe.

    ps> he's almost 44 but looks about 27.


  5. #25

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    Moving, Hong Kong is not a police state, Victoria Australia is a Police state, as they target law abiding citizens, fining them for doing 3km over the speed limit.

    I have never been fined in HKG in all the years I have been here, but back in Aus it was what the cops did, booking motorists, while the low lifes of society broke into your house and stole your DVD player....Or you got glassed while having a quiet beer at a Melbourne pub, because somebody less fortunate, takes a liking to your Panarai Luminor Marina Automatic, and wants to fight for it...


    Maybe you should move back to Melbourne for a while and get a taste of what your version of the Police should be like...

    I am very happy with how the cops operate here, and it sends the right message along the criminal grape vine, that the chances of being searched with gear, is high... Pardon the pun

    Last edited by Skyhook; 27-08-2010 at 06:35 PM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    It is also equally unfair to paint all of HK as being racist as you clearly did on your post and is somewhat ironic when complaining about such an incident.
    So we have Filipinos maids sacked one day because of an incident in their homeland over which they have no control; Black Travel bans instituted for no reason on the same; a black guy who is not even complaining about the number of times he is stopped for an ID check (when as a white chick I've never been stopped), just for being searched with no reason .... I agree that not EVERYONE in HK is racists, but bloody hell, a fair number are giving us reason to think it right now!

  7. #27

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    I don't think the OP and her friend seriously object the ID check though it is annoying. The question is about being bodily searched without probable cause and failing to disclose it. That in my opinion is not appropriate and beyond reasonable measures to keep people safe.


  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    So we have Filipinos maids sacked one day because of an incident in their homeland over which they have no control; Black Travel bans instituted for no reason on the same; a black guy who is not even complaining about the number of times he is stopped for an ID check (when as a white chick I've never been stopped), just for being searched with no reason .... I agree that not EVERYONE in HK is racists, but bloody hell, a fair number are giving us reason to think it right now!
    The black travel ban is not about racism but about a political protest over an incident. The sacking of maids is not appropriate and unfortunate and you would find most local people would also find it despicable. Racism is ugly and exists everywhere including here. It's no reason to lash out and try to tarnish all of HK with it as you did in your earlier statement.

  9. #29

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    Obviously the police do profile. I'm white and I've never been checked for ID, not once in 17 years living here.


  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by bookblogger:
    Obviously the police do profile. I'm white and I've never been checked for ID, not once in 17 years living here.
    Here is the legal answer which is pretty well as expected:

    XII BODY SEARCH
    All too often in Hong Kong, a person is stopped in the street,
    asked for his identity card and given a body search. In Brazil v
    Chief Constable of Surrey [1983] 3 All ER 537, the court for the
    first time extended the principle in Christie v Leachinsky to body
    searches. As a search involves an affront to the dignity of a
    person, a police constable should not normally carry out a
    search without first telling the victim why the search was
    necessary. A search cannot be justified simply on the basis of a
    general practice. This is a welcome decision and probably
    means that many body searches in Hong Kong are unlawful.
    Coupled with Holgate-Mohammed v Duke, it poses another
    limitation to section 54 of the Police Force Ordinance. A police
    officer may on merely intuitive suspicion stop and search any
    person, yet he cannot keep his suspicion to himself. If he fails
    without lawful excuse to give reason for his search, he will no
    longer be in execution of his duty (McBean v Parker [1983] Crim
    LR 399). The reason he gives will certainly be useful in reviewing
    whether he does have an actual suspicion, or if appropriate,
    whether his suspicion is reasonable.

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