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Asia's World City?!?! Pfft.... Hitler was a better joke than this!

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  1. #51

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    ...i'm also amazed that street performers can be harassed by the force & even brought to court! Bicycle anyone? how about pets......sheesh yeah right!


  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vessy:
    Do you really think you have more personal liberties here in HK than you do in Canada or the US? I suggest you travel to those places and then let me know what you think. Would you say that an average person in Hong Kong has a better quality of life than someone who lives in a Western country, like Canada? I would have to disagree. Personally, I don't really appreciate "random drug searches" here in HK, and I know for a fact they don't happen as often in most Western countries.
    Read my post again. I did not say there are more personal liberties in Hong Kong. What I questioned, however, is the value of excessive personal liberties and the consequences/sacrifices/prices the society must pay as a whole for that extreme liberty. I went to college in the US and worked there most of my adult life, I've seen enough of serious social and economic problems (examples mentioned in my previous post) created by the (in my opinon) over the top individualistic mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vessy:
    Personally, I can tolerate higher crime rates as oppose to random drug searches, prostitution advertised so openly, and poor/homeless people scattered around the streets as they are here in HK. I live in a fairly nice area here, but there are still old ladies who sleep in piles of garbage every night.
    You are here again applying your WESTERN values and what you are accustomed to, which in my opinion, are not necessarily better. Let me ask you this - Many Americans love their personal rights to bear arms so much so that they are willing to put up with one of the highest crime rates in the developed West, what do you think about that? I am surprised by your comment on homelessness, aren't you aware of the number of homeless people in downtown NY, SF and LA? Many of them are frequently on drugs and/or mentally ill and can get violent and agressive. Prostitution - it is legal and openly advertised in Australia as well. Perhaps name one of your quintessential example of Western "world city" then we can discuss further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vessy:
    Every country in the world has it's own set of problems. I realize that. But if Hong Kong is going to call itself a "world city" I would expect it to be the quintessential example of a city - and it isn't. A lot of cities in North America and Europe wouldn't make the cut either. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy living in HK. It's a fascinating and rich city. But I would still stand by my statement in that is is far away from being considered a "world city".
    Please do name that Western city you have in mind and we can then more fairly see how Hong Kong compares.
    Last edited by paenme; 29-09-2010 at 11:30 PM.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Well, there are homeless problems everywhere (since homelessness generally, or at least in the US, is accompanied by mental or emotional problems. But there is no doubt that there is much more economic support for the impoverished in the US, UK, and Canada.
    Problem is, are the impoverished truly the unfortunate and therefore deserve the support, and has the economic support been so excessive in the West that it actually motivated many to stay "impoverished", in some cases for generations? Examples and evidence are all abound in the developed West that there is clearly a lot of abuse and waste which resulted in governments taking on insane amount of debts. How is this illogical practice "world class"? One can certainly argue that a much more modest support, small enough to motivate people to work and support themselves like those adopted by the developed East, should be given.

  4. #54

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    Examples and evidence are all abound in the developed West that there is clearly a lot of abuse and waste which resulted in governments taking on insane amount of debts. How is this illogical practice "world class"?
    Um. which developed country has the highest level of debt to GDP? Clue: you won't find it in the west.

    Welfare abuse or people starving, going without medical care, living on the streets (or living in cages), I know which I would choose.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by paenme:
    Problem is, {snip}
    Nice one. Two pages ago you are complaining about people stereotyping you and now you are using stereotypes to justify your own arguments.

    (BTW, I am not arguing against stereotypes or stereotyping. Stereotypes exist because they are true. It may not mean a whole selected population conforms to a particular stereotype, but it more than the average of the entire population.)
    Last edited by Crocodile; 30-09-2010 at 08:38 AM.
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  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Well, there are homeless problems everywhere (since homelessness generally, or at least in the US, is accompanied by mental or emotional problems. But there is no doubt that there is much more economic support for the impoverished in the US, UK, and Canada.
    All above are broken societies that give support, but not enough. NYC & LA I see folks starving on the street, much of UK reminds me of developing nations (places like Newcastle, Sheffield, Hull, Coventry, South and East London, parts of Manchester, Middlesborough, etc, etc). In Toronto homeless people freeze to death on the sidewalks - I've seen them collect a frozen dead guy without shoes or gloves. Tons of people freeze to death on the streets each year. In Montreal they live in the subway system and drink themselves to death. I prefer a system like that of HK that gives very little support and motivates people to work for a living OR a system that gives you everything (food, apartment, benefits for life) like that of say Sweden or Norway at least according to what I've read. Maybe there is some Swede out there that disagrees! Countries that try to adopt a social system which falls in betwen and give just that little bit extra, like the US/UK/Canada are not good benchmarks of functional societies by any stretch of the imagination.
    Last edited by Char Siu King; 30-09-2010 at 11:21 AM.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Welfare abuse or people starving, going without medical care, living on the streets (or living in cages), I know which I would choose.
    Agree. But we are comparing HK with the western cities, so show me the much higher % of Hkers starving and living on the streets than most of those major western cities.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile:
    Nice one. Two pages ago you are complaining about people stereotyping you and now you are using stereotypes to justify your own arguments.

    (BTW, I am not arguing against stereotypes or stereotyping. Stereotypes exist because they are true. It may not mean a whole selected population conforms to a particular stereotype, but it more than the average of the entire population.)
    You apparently did not read my post carefully (or maybe it is my English). What I said is "Problem is, are the impoverished truly the unfortunate and therefore deserve the support..." so I did pre-exclude those that are truly unfortunate or disadvantaged that economic support for them is well justified before I went on to argue that the excessive support for the rest of them (in those confirmed cases of intentioanl abuse) constitutes a grief problem in the developed western societies.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile:
    Nice one. Two pages ago you are complaining about people stereotyping you and now you are using stereotypes to justify your own arguments.

    (BTW, I am not arguing against stereotypes or stereotyping. Stereotypes exist because they are true. It may not mean a whole selected population conforms to a particular stereotype, but it more than the average of the entire population.)
    I don't think you read my post carefully, or maybe it's my English. What I said was "Problem is, are the impoverished truly the unfortunate and therefore deserve the support..." so I did exclude those truly unfortunate and disadvantaged for whom the economic support is well justified before I went on to critisize the excessive support for the rest of them (i.e. those able bodies who abuse the system).

    I agree with you that stereotypes are true because they typically apply to the majority of the population. My complaint in my first post wasn't really about the treatment I experienced (which was unpleasant nontheless) but to argue that personal liberties, tolerance and equalities aren't always applied equally to all because of the stereotypes. However there is a difference between the treatment OP received which seems to be based on actual historical crime profiling and the treatment I received which is based on perception that Asian women are submissive and non-confrontational (in other words, we take crap for not being bad/rude or loud mouthed or likely to be scene making etc).

  10. #60

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    I always chuckle when I hear the cops here referred to as "Asia's Finest". Obviously they are copying from NY, but in NY they are called "New Yorks Finest" which actually has meaning. "Asias finest" just sounds like they are trying to outdo other cities cops. If they really want to copy it, they should be called "HK's finest". Get it right and stop sounding like a bunch of wankers!


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