Asia's World City?!?! Pfft.... Hitler was a better joke than this!

[Dreadnought]

Get it right and stop sounding like a bunch of wankers!

Watch your back - Skyhook will be all over you like a fat kid on a cupcake for this statement.

[hullexile]

Agree. But we are comparing HK with the western cities, so show me the much higher % of Hkers starving and living on the streets than most of those major western cities.

I am not comparing anywhere with anywhere. I was replying to your quote of:

Examples and evidence are all abound in the developed West that there is clearly a lot of abuse and waste which resulted in governments taking on insane amount of debts. How is this illogical practice "world class"?

and explaining why it is not an "illogical practice" but rather the limited amount of abuse and waste is IMO an acceptable price to pay.

If we are going to compare then I'd like to point out that in 2006-7 for example social welfare spending accounted for 54.7% of the HKSAR government spending. The UK figure for 2010 was about 60%. Not really all that different.

[paenme]

If we are going to compare then I'd like to point out that in 2006-7 for example social welfare spending accounted for 54.7% of the HKSAR government spending. The UK figure for 2010 was about 60%. Not really all that different.

Links to support this please. And the actual dollar spent per capita will be more meaningful and useful, as the percentages alone could be misleading as it may simply be that the UK wasted more money in other areas as well. I wonder why we don't hear/read about abuses of social programs as much in HK.

[PDLM]

The 2010 - 2011 Budget - Budget Speech

Our estimated recurrent expenditure on education, health and social welfare for 2010-11 will reach around $130 billion, accounting for 56 per cent of recurrent government expenditure.

A more detailed revenue breakdown on page 8 here: http://www.budget.gov.hk/2010/eng/pd...briefing-e.pdf

For the UK (from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/News...2010/DG_188507 ):

[paenme]

The 2010 - 2011 Budget - Budget Speech

A more detailed revenue breakdown on page 8 here: http://www.budget.gov.hk/2010/eng/pd...briefing-e.pdf

Thanks, but what is the actual dollar spent per capita comparison between HK and UK on social welfare programs?

Ok, HKD130BN for 7M people that is about 1500 pounds per Hker v. 551BN pounds (before interest) for 61M people which comes to 9,000 pounds per Brit. Need we say more?

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk...ending_40.html

[hullexile]

Links to support this please. And the actual dollar spent per capita will be more meaningful and useful, as the percentages alone could be misleading as it may simply be that the UK wasted more money in other areas as well. I wonder why we don't hear/read about abuses of social programs as much in HK.

The first google hit:

Retired judge, wife face jail over fraud - The Standard

[PDLM]

Thanks, but what is the actual dollar spent per capita comparison between HK and UK on social welfare programs?

Very crudely, HK has 8 million people, the UK has 60million. HK spends HK$130bn on education health and social welfare. The UK spends about £437bn taking the obvious categories in the chart above - let's call that HK$5,300bn.

So per head HK is at about HK$16,000 and the UK at HK$88,000. So, very, very crudely the UK spends about 5 times as much per head on social stuff as HK does.

But, of course, the tax structures are completely different and at very different levels between the two places.

[hullexile]

Thanks, but what is the actual dollar spent per capita comparison between HK and UK on social welfare programs?

All in all about 5 times per much in the UK. Bar far the biggest spenders are health care followed by education. When you talk about social welfare programmes I am guessing you mean benefits, free housing and the like. This accounts for about 5% of spending as far as I can work out.

[Freetrader]

All in all about 5 times per much in the UK. Bar far the biggest spenders are health care followed by education. When you talk about social welfare programmes I am guessing you mean benefits, free housing and the like. This accounts for about 5% of spending as far as I can work out.

This supports the assumption that I would have otherwise made - homelessness and relative poverty in the developed West is a much different, more intractable problem to eliminate than in Asia, because the two societies are attempting to solve different problems. Asian countries such as HK provide a bare safety net which eliminates starvation but doesn't create a comfortable life. Less developed places like the PRC have pratically nothing for the poor. The question, I guess, is whether the multiple x social welfare spend in the West is money well-spent or whether at some point additional spend actually generates social dysfunction.

[hullexile]

This supports the assumption that I would have otherwise made - homelessness and relative poverty in the developed West is a much different, more intractable problem to eliminate than in Asia, because the two societies are attempting to solve different problems. Asian countries such as HK provide a bare safety net which eliminates starvation but doesn't create a comfortable life. Less developed places like the PRC have pratically nothing for the poor. The question, I guess, is whether the multiple x social welfare spend in the West is money well-spent or whether at some point additional spend actually generates social dysfunction.

Yes totally agree. Always an impossible problem to solve. On one side you can come up with examples of abuse (so it is wasted money), on the other of those still in need (so more needs to be spent). The UK government tends to get hit both ways on this. Bit like most people think taxes are too high but resist cuts to spending or even ask for increased spending on some areas. So cut spending but protect the health service, education and the military. Oh and deprived kids and pensions, and the elderly in general and .......