View Poll Results: What scheme should be used to manage tunnel congestion

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • G1) private cars -$5 for EHC +$5 for CHT

    0 0%
  • G2) private cars -$5 for EHC +$5 for CHT +extra for buses on EHC

    0 0%
  • G3) private cars -$5 for EHC +$10 for CHT +extra for buses on EHC

    1 7.14%
  • EC1) CHT -private cars +$20 at peak periods

    4 28.57%
  • EC2) Variable congestion charge target 40kph

    3 21.43%
  • EC3) Pollution charge - when roadside pollution is high charge polluting vehicles more

    4 28.57%
  • other

    4 28.57%
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Congestion at the Tunnel

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  1. #21

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    45
    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    It is unclear to me why you have grouped "no impact for light goods vehicles" into Option C. It appears to be completely contrary to the desire to move vehicles to the other tunnels. Why would we want to not penalise light goods vehicles for the congestion (not only in the tunnels, but also when they park and double-park on the roads in Central while unloading and causing even more chaos). It seems that light goods vehicles are a huge cause of congestion and problems for traffic on Hong Kong Island. Given the size of the island, it would be more sensible to encourage people to live in Kowloon and the New Territories (and for the shops, and thus goods, that support those people) to be located there too, where there is plenty of room and roads) rather than continuing to support the bizarre desire to everyone to live on Hong Kong Island. If traffic (including public transport) were less congested it would be easier to get to HK island in the morning, more people would be content not to live there. Meaning the movements would be people in rush hour only, not people plus goods to support those people. The development of the old airport site is already a sensible move in this direction - do not undermine it by continuing to subsidise light goods vehicles in the tunnels.
    I find your reasoning very interesting. Light goods vehicles are not "subsidised" for the convenience of people living on Hong Kong Island. The drivers are already not making a lot of money, to increase toll on them would have placed additional burden to their livelihood.

    Don't make it sound as though everyone wants to live on Hong Kong Island. I lived around Aberdeen for the first 16 years of my life and have lived in Kowloon and NT since I relocated back to here in 2001. There is zero desire for me to move back to the Island at all.

  2. #22

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petesy:
    I find your reasoning very interesting. Light goods vehicles are not "subsidised" for the convenience of people living on Hong Kong Island. The drivers are already not making a lot of money, to increase toll on them would have placed additional burden to their livelihood.

    Don't make it sound as though everyone wants to live on Hong Kong Island. I lived around Aberdeen for the first 16 years of my life and have lived in Kowloon and NT since I relocated back to here in 2001. There is zero desire for me to move back to the Island at all.
    So light good vehicles just go in and out of the tunnel for the sheer hell of it then? I guess if that's the case the reasoning does not hold, but on the other hand, light goods vehicles are usually there DELIVERING something - the point on the whole of their existence - and if there was no demand for what they were delivering, they would not need to use the tunnel! Forgive me if I'm wrong but does Hong Kong Island actually PRODUCE anything itself? Does it have much in the way of farms, factories, ports, airports or even craft workshops? if not, everything needed on the island has to come from somewhere else, and goods tend not to move by MTR. Perhaps that is the solution - Goods Trains!

    Why on earth would you think this would affect the drivers? If the costs of delivery go up, then customers are much more likely to be affected than drivers. It's daft logic like that which is why the government is pandering to the special interest groups who don't want fare to rise in the first place!
    East_coast likes this.

  3. #23

    the problem is CHT is owned by the government and cannot just jack up the rates without a lot of the transportation unions going ape-shit...
    EHT and WHT are both still on the Build-Operate-Transfer model and both those have agreed minimum rates of return for those owning it right now.

    JAherbert likes this.

  4. #24

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    Aug 2005
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    Clear Water Bay (In Da Jungle)
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    make all the goods vehicles drivers use the cross harbor ferry from kwun tong to north point


  5. #25

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    Jun 2007
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    Ex Sai Kunger Sunny Qld for now
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    WTBhotia raises what could be a good idea, not the ferry idea but......

    Why not ban trucks and vans during peak morning/evening hours, only allowing them to operate before the peak hour rush periods, or after...Backed up with very stiff fines should they ignore the curfew, say $1500 on the spot fine.... To be honest it is they who choke up most of the traffic, because if you drive through the same tunnels on a Sunday, with just private car traffic, no vans and trucks around, it flows quite well. Quite a contrast compared to during the week, when there are 5 vans/trucks for every private car.....

    I think that would make a HUGE difference if you got those diesel vehicles off the roads during those times... Another thing would be to get the diesel vans off the road, replacing them with dedicated LPG injected versions, like they did with taxi's here, which were previously diesel..

    It all helps if lowering roadside pollution during peak times is the aim of the game.


  6. #26

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,677
    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    So light good vehicles just go in and out of the tunnel for the sheer hell of it then? I guess if that's the case the reasoning does not hold, but on the other hand, light goods vehicles are usually there DELIVERING something - the point on the whole of their existence - and if there was no demand for what they were delivering, they would not need to use the tunnel! Forgive me if I'm wrong but does Hong Kong Island actually PRODUCE anything itself? Does it have much in the way of farms, factories, ports, airports or even craft workshops? if not, everything needed on the island has to come from somewhere else, and goods tend not to move by MTR. Perhaps that is the solution - Goods Trains!
    Great idea! Shall we reclaim some more land on both sides to make space for the trans-shipment centres and related infrastructure, like access roads?

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Why not ban trucks and vans during peak morning/evening hours, only allowing them to operate before the peak hour rush periods, or after...Backed up with very stiff fines should they ignore the curfew, say $1500 on the spot fine.... To be honest it is they who choke up most of the traffic, because if you drive through the same tunnels on a Sunday, with just private car traffic, no vans and trucks around, it flows quite well.
    Completely obvious and logical. Today I picked up my wife in Tuen Mun at 1:05 and we drove to Immigration Tower via Western Tunnel, we parked at 1:30 - 25 minutes, even Google Maps says it takes 35......try that at 8:30am

    Picked up passports around 2pm and back to Tuen Mun, dropped the boys off at home and back in my office by 3pm...

    Min07 and F16, etc, I parked, as always in the carpark under Central Plaza which is connected to Immigration Tower by a covered footbridge!

    Total cost of trip?

    Tolls $90
    Parking $64
    Petrol $150

    $304 for 3 adults and 2 kids, job done in 2 hours....... The bus?
    East_coast likes this.

  8. #28

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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lootoo:
    I particularly liked how you fully disclosed at the outset the facts that (a) you don't actually own a car and (b) your tunnel experience is limited to the use of public transport and thus, you have never paid a single tunnel toll in your entire life!

    (I'm not counting taxis--think of it as creative license!)
    Why do you think that a user of a tunnel who sits on a bus seat rather than a car seat should not have a voice? Is it that bus passengers are generally poor so they don't count?

    Bus passengers pay tolls and sit in congestion but just not in as nice environment as sitting in a car.
    MovingIn07 likes this.

  9. #29

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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    Thanks East_Coast for drawing attention to the public consultation. I just emailed the following response:

    I have just read the consultation document regarding the proposals to improve traffic distribution among the cross harbour tunnels.....
    Obviously writing a long note explaining to the transport bureau (whose principle purpose is to build new infrastructure) that it is possible to manage congestion may be seen as pointless by many but more people should probably try!

    If you want to vote for option 'C' but you're just too 'lazy' to write then send an email just scan the below and then press send




    hopefully it should work
    Last edited by East_coast; 19-02-2013 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #30

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    The ban trucks during peak hour is actually a subset of another generally good idea - time-of-use pricing. Basically - high price during peak hours, low price during offpeak hours. Thus anything that CAN move to a different time (like trucks) does; while people going to work still travel. Probably simpler to implement than banning certain types of vehicles.

    East_coast, JAherbert and BCD like this.

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