View Poll Results: Should the HK Government Legalise Cannabis?

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  • Yes

    36 51.43%
  • No

    25 35.71%
  • Yes. but with restrictions

    11 15.71%
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Cannabis Legalisation

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  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    It's not that drugs may cause some harm, it's how much they will cause. As I said before, if one needs this to have pleasure in life then it's pitiful. There's plenty of joy and happiness outside of it and millions of people are able to live happy lives without.

    It's pathetic losers that project this kind of rationale and bully and pressure other people to try to justify their own weaknesses.

    Sex doesn't have to be with a partner you love but it's certainly the best case scenario...Maybe that's why you seek happiness in other places, you're either too jaded or incapable of this kind of emotional bond.
    Doing too much of anything will have negative effects. Artificial sweeteners can put me in the ER and are linked to cancer. I think they should be banned, but I doubt that's going to happen and I can choose what I want to put into my body.

    Aren't you pusihng your rationale onto the rest of us and attempting to bully and justify your weakness?

    Sex addiction is a real phenomenon and can cause health and social issues. Should we criminalize that too?

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by closedcasket:
    I do think alchohol and herion are both far worse than cannabis. Both can be so addictive that you need medical help to stop using them. Both can and do kill people by over-dosing.

    Cannabis is a plant, it is not addictive, you can safely stop at any time and it is impossible to overdose.

    So yes, I am making two categories...one being totally safe, natural and non-addictive and impossible to OD.

    and the other being man-made, dangerous, addictive and can kill you if consume too much.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...n-heroin-crack

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/al...e-1165739.html


    Because alcohol is legal...it doesn't get the attention or focus that it should. A drunk person assaults someone at a bar and it is just the boys being rowdy. A drunk man date rapes a women and many times it goes unreported. A drunk man neglects his children and no one hears about it.

    People die from heart disease, cancers, cirrohsis and from drinking too much.
    Totally safe...that's a good one! Not addictive? Less addictive would be more appropriate.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...uana-addictive
    Based on a review of the scientific literature, between 10 to 30% of regular users will develop dependency. Only about 9% will have a serious addiction.When present, withdrawal symptoms might include: anxiety, depression, nausea, sleep disturbances and GI problems.

    Safe?
    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/drugs/Pag...isdangers.aspx
    There are several health risks associated with cannabis use, including dependency problems, mental health problems and lung damage.

    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidenc.../Health_1.html
    It would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects?

    I wouldn't use drugs if I were given a million dollar for even one puff or one drink. Far too much self respect to do that to myself.

  3. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    It's irresponsible to downplay the effects of drugs or to suggest that since it might not be as bad as something else then it's ok, in order to promote legalization. I never said these things should be banned. That's unrealistic, people are weak and will always need crutches. Sure some people can handle use with what they perceive as acceptable consequences however you don't know that when you head down that path.

    I've witnessed and grew up in an environment that clearly demonstrated me the sometimes tragic effect that drugs have on people's lives and it's far worse that eating McDonalds or drinking tea and coffee.

    Since someone seems overly keen on down playing the effect of cannabis. Here are other points of view from medical experts and researchers.

    http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/pdf...fects_2001.pdf
    In cross-sectional surveys of young people, cannabis use is related to failing to complete a high school education and job instability in young adulthood.

    Cannabis intoxication impairs a wide range of cognitive and behavioural functions that are involved in driving an automobile or operating machinery. The effects are generally larger, more consistent and more persistent in tasks that require sustained attention. Recreational doses of THC produce similar performance impairments in laboratory tests and standardised driving courses to Blood Alcohol Concentrations of between 0.07% and 0.10%.

    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/drugs/Pag...isdangers.aspx
    There are several health risks associated with cannabis use, including dependency problems, mental health problems and lung damage.

    http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/m...nd-its-effects

    Marijuana, which comes from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, is the most frequently used illegal drug in the U.S. About 4% of American adults smoke pot at least once a year. Roughly 1% of adults abuse pot, and one in 300 have a pot addiction.

    Heavy marijuana use lowers men's testosterone levels and sperm count and quality. Pot could decrease libido and fertility in some heavy-smoking men.

    Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidenc.../Health_1.html
    it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects?

    http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/101.long
    Conclusions Cannabis is not, as widely perceived, a harmless drug but poses risks to the individual and to society.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...h-7818050.html
    Drug carries 20 times the cancer risk of a plain tobacco cigarette – yet 88 per cent believe it is safer

    http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvic.../cannabis.aspx
    Recent research has suggested that it can be a major cause of psychotic illnesses in those who are genetically vulnerable


    PS Nothing wrong with sex if you take appropriate precautions. Comparing drugs to sex is just plain sad...
    Again, you make the assumption that people only use drugs as crutches. The Feds would have loved you in the 1930s.

    I'd like to hear about the environment you grew up if you don't mind sharing. Entirely your choice--I respect an individual's right to choose.

    As for your links:

    Cannabis use is related to dropping out of school and poor early job performance; many who are likely to use pot are likely to not be all that interested in school or work anyway. At the same time, some of the brightest students I've ever met use cannabis and it doesn't hurt their productivity whatsoever. It's the chicken and egg syndrome again; which came first, the apathy or the drug use?

    Also many of your studies are old. I'm not going to go back and look, but another poster shared a video from WA state (which recently decriminalized cannabis) and shows that people tend to drive SLOWER after using pot. I agree that people shouldn't smoke and drive, however, as the effects of a small amount can vary widely depending on the individual (much like alcohol). Good weed can make you sleepy, and falling asleep behind the wheel is a very real and dangerous phenomenon.

    Now, if you have ADHD, pot can actually help (and I do know of several individuals who derive a great deal of benefit from cannabis use in treating their ADHD):

    http://www.420magazine.com/2013/03/s...s-performance/

    Using cannabis is definitely a better proposition than prescription stimulants if you ask me, and cannabis has been around a heck of a lot longer than ADHD-specific pharmaceuticals.

    As for testosterone levels, you should check this movie some time:

    http://www.youtube.com/movie/super-high-me

    The laboratory in the study finds his testosterone levels actually increase when using pot (and he uses a ton of it in the movie)!

    As for withdrawal symptoms, I'm going to go by what I actually know and see in the field. Yes, heavy and regular users do indeed sometimes display symptoms of psychological addiction when taking a break (or being unable to score), but nobody is going to flip out over it. It's more of an 'oh well' type thing. But what do I know, I've only met a few thousand cannabis consumers in my life.

    OK, I have to get some stuff done today (and can't be bothered to find links to shoot down everything you posted). I agree that using cannabis excessively can indeed harm one's health, as can many other activities and substances.

    The running you love so much can be extremely harmful too, but not every runner takes it to that level of course:

    http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/22...b2LfV8xZa7Xw.4

    Runners frequently become addicted to running and continue to run even when it is detrimental to their health. In the present study a paper and pencil test to measure running addiction, the running addiction scale (RAS) was constructed and evaluated and used to investigate the psychological correlates of running addiction. The RAS, symptom check list, locus of control scale, commitment to running scale (CR), and a questionnaire about the individual's running habits and degree of addiction were administered to 32 male and 15 female runners. The results suggest that the RAS is reliable and valid, correlating with self-rated addiction.

    I think running should be pushed to the side and treated as uncool. I hate sweaty runners tearing past me on the sidewalk, often knocking over children and little old ladies. Runners should stick to treadmills or only run in designated areas away from the general population.

    Running on HK streets definitely can't be good for you:

    http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cont.../10/637.2.full

    "As expected, the total lung burden of inhaled particles increases as the concentration of ambient pollutants increases.43 Blood levels of toxins may rapidly reach harmful levels, as was shown in New York City runners after 30 min of exercise near busy roadways. This activity evoked an acute rise in blood carboxyhaemoglobin levels from 1.7% to 5.1%,45 which is similar to those found in regular cigarette smokers. Of particular interest was the finding that during exercise, only low concentrations of pollutants (O3 and NO2) were required to cause similar lung damage to that achieved by high concentrations of the same compounds at rest.46"

  4. #134

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    Eh, all things can be fine in moderation, just depends on which drugs are hard to be moderate with.

    I have tried mdma, coke, dexamphetamine and I take Ritalin. I have tried but not liked tobacco and weed cause I hate inhaling any kind of smoke. Tbh I didn't like mdma that much but I think it is fine if you take a little bit and you trust the supplier. Coke is awesome but it should really be only taken in small amounts and only on a special occasion due to its addictive properties. Dexys did nothing to me but make me talk a lot. Ritalin sucks but I gotta take it and the side affects are minimal compared to the other options available. I can easily get off Ritalin without withdrawals which is good so I only take it when necessary. Have always wanted to try acid or shrooms but I am too scared of having lasting side effects or having a bad trip.

    I really believe that harder drugs that are addictive should not be made illegal just because of the ease of becoming addicted to them or of having lasting side effects. I don't think you can justify keeping weed illegal though considering the side effects, lack of addictive properties and very importantly, the cost to governments to police it and to keep people in gaols that get caught dealing it or possessing it.

    For me all abuse issues I have had have been alcohol related in younger years. Alcohol is really dangerous because of your lack of judgment after a certain number of drinks. You can drink so fast that when it hits you you just lose the intelligence to stop you from continuing. These days I always stop myself at 4 or 5 drinks (usually beer) and drink water from then on.

    I don't like the idea of not having booze tho, it really is fun being a bit under the influence and there is no real problem with moderate amounts. I do think we need to be drilled more and more about stopping yourself from going past a certain point in school, advertising etc. I think drunk driving laws should be made extremely harsh. I think bars should only be legally allowed to serve a certain amount of drinks to someone, or maybe have breathalysers installed and customers have to blow an acceptable level to be served.

    Skyhook, LegalizeHK and Lootoo like this.

  5. #135

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    I was unfortunate enough to grow up around this crap and I saw first hand the damage that it causes(Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and others). Had access and opportunities from a very young age. Always despised it and have never tried nor would I ever unless I had a gun to my head, not even for a million dollars.

    Now there's an interesting reasoning... Cannabis doesn't make people apathetic but it helps with ADHD... You met people that used cannabis and in your opinion it doesn't affect their performance. How do you know they wouldn't be better without it? Not exactly scientific reasoning...

    That's a bit like someone talking about knowing this 100 year old guy that smokes and claiming that smoking cant be bad for your health since there are old people that smoke.

    Ask 1000 parents this question: Would you rather that your kid be a runner or a pot smoker? What do you think the answer will be?

    Ask the same question about milk, chocolate, sugar and most of the idiotic comparisons given here and see what the answer will be.

    I'd also wager a good amount of money that more would pick they'd rather see their kids drink a beer than smoke weed. It would be interesting to see the answer about tobacco...

    At the end of the day, the politics usually reflect the will of the people. There are far too many people that are uncomfortable with drugs like cannabis to have it in the mainstream. That makes me very happy and fortunately, I don't think it will ever be... The most that will happen are levels of legalization and I have no real issues with that as long as it's heavily regulated like any dangerous drug.


  6. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    I was unfortunate enough to grow up around this crap and I saw first hand the damage that it causes(Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and others). Had access and opportunities from a very young age. Always despised it and have never tried nor would I ever unless I had a gun to my head, not even for a million dollars.
    That is entirely your choice, of course. Sorry the people around you abused substances. Not all of us do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    Now there's an interesting reasoning... Cannabis doesn't make people apathetic but it helps with ADHD... You met people that used cannabis and in your opinion it doesn't affect their performance. How do you know they wouldn't be better without it? Not exactly scientific reasoning...

    That's a bit like someone talking about knowing this 100 year old guy that smokes and claiming that smoking cant be bad for your health since there are old people that smoke.
    If you understood how it worked, you'd know it has diametrically opposed effects on individuals. Pot can either make people sleepy or very active, and different strains have completely different effects and flavor profiles.

    One 100-year-old guy vs over a thousand people? Fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    Ask 1000 parents this question: Would you rather that your kid be a runner or a pot smoker? What do you think the answer will be?

    Ask the same question about milk, chocolate, sugar and most of the idiotic comparisons given here and see what the answer will be.

    I'd also wager a good amount of money that more would pick they'd rather see their kids drink a beer than smoke weed. It would be interesting to see the answer about tobacco...

    At the end of the day, the politics usually reflect the will of the people. There are far too many people that are uncomfortable with drugs like cannabis to have it in the mainstream. That makes me very happy and fortunately, I don't think it will ever be... The most that will happen are levels of legalization and I have no real issues with that as long as it's heavily regulated like any dangerous drug.
    That, madam (you are female, right?) is due to cultural issues, and our culture is changing. You'd be surprised how many people think pot is better than alcohol. Our culture is really the problem. It is 'cool' to abuse substances and it is also acceptable to fear and abhor them (ahem). If drugs were religion, you'd be in line for a position in the Taliban.

    We've been force fed US drug policy over the last century. Before that, using cannabis and opium was par for course in much of the world. Ask 1,000 parents in Humboldt County, CA the same questions and you'd get very different answers from 1,000 parents in Korea.

    BTW, milk, chocolate and sugar sounds like the perfect drink after a good smoke. And water, lots of water. lol

    As for 'mainstream,' just look at the way the voting has gone on the poll on this thread, and the number of educated, intelligent people who have posted about their drug use here.

    Here's an article on a recent TV poll in NZ:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/The-Vote-view...6/Default.aspx
    Last edited by LegalizeHK; 31-05-2013 at 04:51 PM.

  7. #137

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    Fortunately, I live in HK and doubt I'll see the day where people think more like you than like me...

    There are reasons why all drugs are tightly regulated and it's not just politics or culture. It's because they pose a danger to society and the individuals. Any medical professional would laugh at anyone comparing drug use to running, drinking milk or eating chocolate.

    While it's true that many people can use all kinds of drugs and still be responsible citizen, you don't know that when you go down that path. Furthermore, as things are, many people have no idea what they are buying and even when things are regulated like tobacco, the stuff that is mixed in is toxic.

    There's absolutely no upside to putting any kind of smoke in your lungs. We have no real choice to breathe in some pollution and at least we can filter the air inside. Choosing to put poison in your lungs? Never a wise choice for anyone and furthermore it hurts people around you.

    Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved no medications that are smoked, primarily because smoking is a poor way to deliver medicine.

    Another one:


    As the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) noted, "Epidemiology data from . . . traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations."

    A study of motorists pulled over for reckless driving showed that, among those who were not impaired by alcohol, 45 percent tested positive for marijuana.

    How many get arrested for drinking milk?

    The National Multiple Sclerosis Society stated that studies done to date "have not provided convincing evidence that marijuana benefits people with MS" and does not recommend it as a treatment. Further, the MS Society states that for people with MS "long-term use of marijuana may be associated with significant serious side effects."

    The British Medical Association has taken a similar position, voicing "extreme concern" that downgrading the criminal status of marijuana would "mislead" the public into thinking that the drug is safe to use when, "in fact, it has been linked to greater risk of heart disease, lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema."


    In 1999 the Institute of Medicine (IOM) undertook a landmark study reviewing the alleged medical properties of marijuana.

    Researchers who conducted the study could find no medical value to marijuana for virtually any ailment they examined, including the treatment of wasting syndrome in AIDS patients, movement disorders such as Parkinson's disease and epilepsy, or glaucoma.

    Changing culture?
    Dutch coffee shops - famous for decades for selling cannabis legally - are under threat from a new zero-tolerance drugs policy.

    The liberal approach to soft drugs in the Netherlands has given it the reputation as Europe's 'capital of cannabis culture'.

    Local authorities are now clamping down on a business they say is sending the wrong message to Dutch youths and giving the country a bad name.

    Almost all Dutch towns have a cannabis policy, and 73 percent of them have a no-tolerance policy toward the coffeehouses.

    Netherlands marijuana ban on tourists comes into effect
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...rists-law.html

    Dutch tolerance policy got going in the 1970s was not on the theory that marijuana was OK — it has always been viewed as a public health problem


  8. #138

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    FAO Swannie. Anyone ever likened you to a record player stuck on repeat? Chill out man. Take a doobie.

    Joking
    (Not joking)


  9. #139

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    Let me put it this way... I have young kids and when I visit them someday at university..I would much rather find a bong in their flat than a bottle of Vodka, a pack of ciggies or a bag of McDonalds crap....

    Weed doesn't worry me one bit when it comes to my kids...many other things do. But ultimately it will be their decision and I will support them no matter what they choose.

    usehername and scrambler like this.

  10. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie:
    I was unfortunate enough to grow up around this crap and I saw first hand the damage that it causes(Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and others). Had access and opportunities from a very young age. Always despised it and have never tried nor would I ever unless I had a gun to my head, not even for a million dollars.

    Now there's an interesting reasoning... Cannabis doesn't make people apathetic but it helps with ADHD... You met people that used cannabis and in your opinion it doesn't affect their performance. How do you know they wouldn't be better without it? Not exactly scientific reasoning...

    That's a bit like someone talking about knowing this 100 year old guy that smokes and claiming that smoking cant be bad for your health since there are old people that smoke.

    Ask 1000 parents this question: Would you rather that your kid be a runner or a pot smoker? What do you think the answer will be?

    Ask the same question about milk, chocolate, sugar and most of the idiotic comparisons given here and see what the answer will be.

    I'd also wager a good amount of money that more would pick they'd rather see their kids drink a beer than smoke weed. It would be interesting to see the answer about tobacco...

    At the end of the day, the politics usually reflect the will of the people. There are far too many people that are uncomfortable with drugs like cannabis to have it in the mainstream. That makes me very happy and fortunately, I don't think it will ever be... The most that will happen are levels of legalization and I have no real issues with that as long as it's heavily regulated like any dangerous drug.

    You're probaly right...more people would rather see their kid drink a beer than smoke weed and yes many people are uncomfortable with cannabis....but those feeling aren't based on facts and rational thinking..they are based on the social stigma that goes along with an illegal substance.

    Times are changing quickly...for the first time since polling was conducted on the topic a majority of Americans are in favor of legalizing pot.

    "According to the new survey, 51 percent of Americans say that marijuana should be "legalized, taxed, and regulated like alcohol." A much smaller percentage (6 percent) say that the drug should be legalized, but not taxed and regulated. Only 33 percent of respondents said marijuana should not be legalized at all, and 10 percent said they weren't sure."

    And as you can imagine, the younger people polled are more likely to be in favor of legalization..so as time goes on, it would be logical to conclude that support will only grow in favor of legalization.

    So brace yourself Swannie....people are wising up. There is no reason for cannabis to be illegal and eventually facts tend to win out. Pot will become legal in more and more areas as time moves on....my only hope is that you are alive to see just how irrelevant legalization would be to you and other people who try to control what other people do..
    Last edited by closedcasket; 01-06-2013 at 05:34 AM.
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