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Reintroducing megafauna into Hong Kong: Wishful thinking or real possibility?

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  1. #11

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    Firstly, macaques are not native, and secondly if you actually ever went into the countryside here you would realise that they are definitely not under control.

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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock:
    Firstly, macaques are not native, and secondly if you actually ever went into the countryside here you would realise that they are definitely not under control.

    Sure. There are about 2,000 Macaques Monkeys in Hong Kong. And there are over 7 million humans. Which species is not under control here?
    Last edited by closedcasket; 20-06-2013 at 07:47 AM.

  3. #13

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    I object to the false dichotomy of the thread title...


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by usehername:
    'beneficial' how?
    How? This article provides an answer (not written by my friend, but he has the same general idea):

    http://www.biosch.hku.hk/ecology/por...t-1-fierce.htm


    Excerpt:
    If big fierce animals - BFAs from now on - are history in Hong Kong, why concern ourselves with them?

    ...The answer is that we cannot hope to understand the ecology of Hong Kong today without knowing more about the environment in which the flora and fauna lived before the overwhelming human impacts of the last couple of millennia. BFAs were a key element of that environment, not just because they killed stuff, but also because they modified the behaviour of their prey - the so-called 'ecology of fear'. By influencing the numbers and behaviour of herbivores, carnivores have an indirect impact on the structure of plant communities...Unfortunately, we currently know far too little about the complexities of tropical food webs to predict what the impact of the loss of particular carnivore species will be


    The ultimate BFAs are the big cats, of which the tiger (Panthera tigris, 70-250 kg) and leopard (P. pardus, 30-70 kg) visited Hong Kong well into the last century. By that time, the largest prey species available were muntjacs and wild pigs but, given the opportunity, tigers specialize on bigger prey, such as the sambar deer (Cervus unicolor), which must have been here in the past. Each tiger needs about 50 large ungulates a year (Karanth et al., 2004), so there can never have been many tigers in Hong Kong.

    The leopard, in contrast, is the ultimate generalist. They take more monkeys than tigers do, and the commonest items in the scats of leopards on the outskirts of Mumbai are dogs and rodents (Edgaonkar & Chellam, 2002). A small population of leopards would probably thrive in modern Hong Kong but, although they would soon eliminate the feral dog problem and put the macaques back in the trees where they belong

    The Asiatic black bear (Ursus thibetanus, < 170 kg) is an undisputed BFA. Hong Kong is well within the recent historical range for this species

    Skeletal remains of the false gharial (Tomistoma schlegelii) have been found in the Pearl River. This crocodile is often considered a fish-eater, but there are reliable accounts of adults, which can exceed 5 m in length, taking riverbank mammals as large as macaques. Finally, Hong Kong is well within the historical range of the largest reptile of them all, the saltwater crocodile (Crocodylus porosus). A 7-metre "saltie" would be a threat to anything up to and including a tiger.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lootoo:
    I object to the false dichotomy of the thread title...
    How is it false? (Kidding)

    Yeah, but you know HK people, they will make it into a dichotomy even if it isn't really. HK people are so intolerant of things outside their comfort zone, and co-existence with nature really isn't something I imagine they can accept. Hopefully I am wrong on that.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 20-06-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #16

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    Well, you've seen how Hong Kongers have reacted to a few BFAs of the deep, so I wouldn't expect less of an "hysterical" reaction to the introduction of other BFAs into a densely (human) populated area.

    Won't someone please just think of the children?


  7. #17

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    The animals would probably be poached and across the border to boost the virility of some idiot rich enough and stupid enough to believe in such things within 2 hours of being set loose.

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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock:
    Firstly, macaques are not native, and secondly if you actually ever went into the countryside here you would realise that they are definitely not under control.
    True, the macaques have gone wild in the sense they brazenly steal stuff from hikers. You are also right about the current macaque population around Kam Shan and Tai Mo Shan being not "nature". They were descendants of a captive stock released around the time of WW1. However, HK is within the historical native range of macaques so these macaques being returned to HK's countryside is not a problem in itself.

    What is a problem is a lack of natural predators hunting them. So without anything eating them, the macaque population exploded.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 20-06-2013 at 03:12 PM.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lootoo:
    Well, you've seen how Hong Kongers have reacted to a few BFAs of the deep, so I wouldn't expect less of an "hysterical" reaction to the introduction of other BFAs into a densely (human) populated area.

    Won't someone please just think of the children?
    That goes to show how too many Hkers display a sorry lack of knowledge in biology than anything necessarily wrong with the BFA itself. Dense human population pose many problems to any potential reintroductions, but that does not make it impossible, thereotically speaking. What is the bigger issue is getting pass HKer's mindset and culture aversion which I don't see changing anytime soon.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 20-06-2013 at 03:08 PM.