Why FDH no need to go through a probation period !

[si0001]

In the UK, the "allowances" some families get is higher than if they got an actual job and in some cases, it can be higher than the national average salary!

I don't see how this is any sort of incentive for people to work for a living.

I somewhat agree the HK system should change but not at the expense of opening it up to the kind of abuse that the UK system has been suffering from for decades.

[iliketurtles]

This is a wind-up surely? You cannot surely believe that importing the awful social security system of the UK, which encourages entire generations of families to sit on their backsides and never even look for work is a GOOD thing?

HK may be on the low side of assistance, but at least people here try and don't freeload off the rest of us.

For sure, welfare benefits in the UK need to be updated to reflect only those in need but the fact is that the UK system does look after those in need. However, for you to suggest that the better approach is to simply discard non-useful members of our society in the way HK does is fucking appalling.

[amitsingh_hk]

I agree with this. If HK wants to be taken seriously as a world city, comparable to other world cities, it needs to address this. Some people might not believe in social security which would make their view understandable (even if still wrong).

In the UK, job seeker's allowance is at a minimum, HK$2,800 per month. The only such scheme I can see in HK (and I don't even know if it is in force but it came up on a google search) allows persons of poor neighbourhoods (like Yuen Long, Tuen Mun etc) to claim for a transport allowance of a maximum HK$600 on a reimbursement basis.

Old age pension? UK starts at 65 for men, 60 for women and is at a minimum HK$5,472. HK is at a maximum HK$2,200.

To be eligible for any of the HK allowances, you basically must be dirt poor with no assets.

The big difference in the UK is that every one of its citizens is entitled to reasonable (and subsidised or free) accommodation. There is no such entitlement in Hong Kong. Cage homes are not reasonable accommodation in the UK and even if they were, they would be free.

I agree HK needs to be more for the elderly citizens.

In the UK, even the non-citizens are eligible for government handouts. The UK government is overly generous in the handouts and lax in their requirements to be eligible for such benefits and the worst in monitoring it.
Even with their citizens, some think the benefits of being on the dole outweigh being off it.
I don't think the UK is an appropriate example of how to run the social security.

There is no perfect model as the costs are quantifiable but the benefits are not. Every country has to manage the best they can for their own citizens.

HK does need to improve but our standing as a world city is not dependent on social security

[Koen]

Good job trolling everyone with your nonsense.

Ps just learn how to cook for yourself. Problem solved.

How come so many people who give troll like responses then accuse the OP's of being trolls?

I think from what Im hearing most of the troll responses come from people who don't actualy have FDH's at all or any kind of help though they certainly need some.

[INXS]

"How is using the phrase "cage home" emotive when the phrase accurately describes the housing these people are forced to resort to?"

They're not cages. All of the people living in so-called 'cage homes' are free to come and go as they wish. In other countries we would call these people 'homeless'. They are, largely, not 'forced' into these homes. If you bothered to look at the stories they are quite varied: some choose to live there because they like the location, some have burned there bridges with government housing, drug and alcohol problems, divorcees, social misfits.....it's not as simple as you would think....please research and think harder.

"Your posts on this forum which defend almost every third world or feudal practice in this city really demonstrate that you are afflicted with a virulent strand of Stockholm Syndrome. Criticizing Hong Kong for its shortcomings is a civic duty - we should all try and make this is a better city. Explaining away gross norms and behavior by trotting out the culture argument does a great disservice to the community we live in."

Oh please! A great disservice to our community would be slithering and snivelling our way into a welfare state....won't be long now until the bubble bursts in quite a few western countries I think...

[INXS]

"living in cages is a "choice",but only because of their limited circumstances due to low skilled wages being too low and cost of dwelling in this rigged property market system is too high"

Another us researched piece of drivel...

My politics are probably centre left if I could be pigeon holed....what I do believe is that there should be no free lunch. What is wrong with collecting cardboard actually? Seriously, what is actually wrong with it?

"People in other world cities don't do this and are less likely to an abject working poor because there's is social safety net (assuming they are documented persons). HK is work or not having anything to live on (unless you have a benefactor)"

You don't live in the real world. In both the UK and Australia I spent many years working in social housing and social care...over 10 years actually. I have worked with housing associations, district councils, the national probation service, been a member of several think tanks on homelessness, poverty, offending and drug & alcohol/mental health issues in homelessness. What are your credentials? What is your background that you want to lecture me, or call me a right wing prick, or push your nonsense? What have you done for your community? Trust me, I'm not being an asshole...I'm willing to learn....please advise...

[Mat]

Hats off to the OP though...15 pags and going.

[bibbju]

In the UK, job seeker's allowance is at a minimum, HK$2,800 per month.

IF you qualify for job seeker's allowance. Not everyone does.

Old age pension? UK starts at 65 for men, 60 for women and is at a minimum HK$5,472.

IF you qualify. If you have insufficient National Insurance contributions, no state pension (or reduced pension only) for you.

It's also important to note that the pensionable age is being equalised and it will be rise over the next few years. Government predictions say age 68 by 2020 for both sexes.

The big difference in the UK is that every one of its citizens is entitled to reasonable (and subsidised or free) accommodation.

Total rubbish. What world are you living in?!

[INXS]

.
The big difference in the UK is that every one of its citizens is entitled to reasonable (and subsidised or free).

Tell that to all the families shoved into single rooms in so-called B&Bs across the UK...please immediately remove your idea of what constitutes a B&B immediately and think of a 3 bed semi converted into a 6 'bedroom' 'guesthouse'....families are housed alongside offenders, drug abusers, people with acute mental health problems....breakfast is typically cornflakes and milk.....emergency night shelters, Open Door in St. Albans was one of mine....8 men to a dorm. Mostly chronic alcoholics.....they would have loved to have grills, thieving was a huge problem....not that they had much....they would have loved to have been able to make a few dollars collecting cardboard.

Actually, many groups have tried to set up schemes in the UK but they always fuck it up. Sara Lee tried to make a scheme for homeless 16 year olds to have some free training in Slough, gave them $5 pocket money per week, you know what, the benefits agency stepped in and reduced their benefit accordingly....guess what happened? I fought them for months about this....everything in the UK and Australian benefit system seems almost designed to stop people getting into work/mainstream housing. We used to call it the 'poverty trap'...many people get used to the system and how to maximise their benefits...they end up choosing it over the seemingly insurmountable cliff they'd have to climb to get out....the barrier the welfare state created...the expensive monster that we soon won't be able to pay for...

[iliketurtles]

IF you qualify for job seeker's allowance. Not everyone does.

Conditions:

• be 18 or over but below State Pension age - there are some exceptions if you’re 16 or 17
• not be in full-time education
• be in England, Scotland or Wales
• be able and available for work
• be actively seeking work
• work on average less than 16 hours a week
• go to a JSA interview

IF you qualify. If you have insufficient National Insurance contributions, no state pension (or reduced pension only) for you.

If you were working most of your adult life or receiving benefits, you qualify.

It's also important to note that the pensionable age is being equalised and it will be rise over the next few years. Government predictions say age 68 by 2020 for both sexes.

Yes, correct.

Total rubbish. What world are you living in?!

Really? Funny that you didn't take the time to substantiate that. What about rights to temporary shelter and the big one: housing benefit. Determining the level of eligibility is complicated but suffice it to say that everyone is entitled to it and it is means-based i.e. the poorer you are, the more the government will assist.