View Poll Results: FDH shall have probation period ? Yes or No.

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  • FDH must have 3 months probation

    12 46.15%
  • FDH must have no probation

    14 53.85%
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Why FDH no need to go through a probation period !

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  1. #141

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    3,471

    "living in cages is a "choice",but only because of their limited circumstances due to low skilled wages being too low and cost of dwelling in this rigged property market system is too high"

    Another us researched piece of drivel...

    My politics are probably centre left if I could be pigeon holed....what I do believe is that there should be no free lunch. What is wrong with collecting cardboard actually? Seriously, what is actually wrong with it?

    "People in other world cities don't do this and are less likely to an abject working poor because there's is social safety net (assuming they are documented persons). HK is work or not having anything to live on (unless you have a benefactor)"

    You don't live in the real world. In both the UK and Australia I spent many years working in social housing and social care...over 10 years actually. I have worked with housing associations, district councils, the national probation service, been a member of several think tanks on homelessness, poverty, offending and drug & alcohol/mental health issues in homelessness. What are your credentials? What is your background that you want to lecture me, or call me a right wing prick, or push your nonsense? What have you done for your community? Trust me, I'm not being an asshole...I'm willing to learn....please advise...

    Last edited by Editor; 27-09-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Cleaning up a bit..
    chingleutsch likes this.

  2. #142

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    HK
    Posts
    14,624

    Hats off to the OP though...15 pags and going.

    INXS and chingleutsch like this.

  3. #143

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    In the UK, job seeker's allowance is at a minimum, HK$2,800 per month.
    IF you qualify for job seeker's allowance. Not everyone does.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    Old age pension? UK starts at 65 for men, 60 for women and is at a minimum HK$5,472.
    IF you qualify. If you have insufficient National Insurance contributions, no state pension (or reduced pension only) for you.

    It's also important to note that the pensionable age is being equalised and it will be rise over the next few years. Government predictions say age 68 by 2020 for both sexes.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    The big difference in the UK is that every one of its citizens is entitled to reasonable (and subsidised or free) accommodation.
    Total rubbish. What world are you living in?!
    INXS likes this.

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    .
    The big difference in the UK is that every one of its citizens is entitled to reasonable (and subsidised or free).
    Tell that to all the families shoved into single rooms in so-called B&Bs across the UK...please immediately remove your idea of what constitutes a B&B immediately and think of a 3 bed semi converted into a 6 'bedroom' 'guesthouse'....families are housed alongside offenders, drug abusers, people with acute mental health problems....breakfast is typically cornflakes and milk.....emergency night shelters, Open Door in St. Albans was one of mine....8 men to a dorm. Mostly chronic alcoholics.....they would have loved to have grills, thieving was a huge problem....not that they had much....they would have loved to have been able to make a few dollars collecting cardboard.

    Actually, many groups have tried to set up schemes in the UK but they always fuck it up. Sara Lee tried to make a scheme for homeless 16 year olds to have some free training in Slough, gave them $5 pocket money per week, you know what, the benefits agency stepped in and reduced their benefit accordingly....guess what happened? I fought them for months about this....everything in the UK and Australian benefit system seems almost designed to stop people getting into work/mainstream housing. We used to call it the 'poverty trap'...many people get used to the system and how to maximise their benefits...they end up choosing it over the seemingly insurmountable cliff they'd have to climb to get out....the barrier the welfare state created...the expensive monster that we soon won't be able to pay for...
    chingleutsch likes this.

  5. #145

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,880
    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    IF you qualify for job seeker's allowance. Not everyone does.
    Conditions:


    • be 18 or over but below State Pension age - there are some exceptions if you’re 16 or 17
    • not be in full-time education
    • be in England, Scotland or Wales
    • be able and available for work
    • be actively seeking work
    • work on average less than 16 hours a week
    • go to a JSA interview


    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    IF you qualify. If you have insufficient National Insurance contributions, no state pension (or reduced pension only) for you.
    If you were working most of your adult life or receiving benefits, you qualify.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    It's also important to note that the pensionable age is being equalised and it will be rise over the next few years. Government predictions say age 68 by 2020 for both sexes.
    Yes, correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    Total rubbish. What world are you living in?!
    Really? Funny that you didn't take the time to substantiate that. What about rights to temporary shelter and the big one: housing benefit. Determining the level of eligibility is complicated but suffice it to say that everyone is entitled to it and it is means-based i.e. the poorer you are, the more the government will assist.

  6. #146

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    823

    People are terrified of a welfare state? In a "country" the size of Brussels (or sprout) with a current budget surplus of HK$64.9b no one should be living in a cage apartment, or having to push carts loaded with cardboard at eighty years old (unless they want to) it's completely wrong.

    I believe very firmly that there is such a thing as a free lunch, its our duty to be able to recognise for who and when this is appropriate. This is not something Hong Kong has ever excelled at. A source of embarrassment and shame given the pig trough we have created here. Hence the recent flurry to establish a poverty line.

    z754103 and iliketurtles like this.

  7. #147

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Just for the sake of argument, I ran through the UK benefits calculator. It's fun. You should try.

    Facts: INXS and his wife, Bibbju, have two chilren, 2 and 8. Unfortunately neither are skilled (university of "Life" for them) and, as we know, economic conditions are tough. Both healthy (although INXS has put some weight on over the years) so both are jobseekers.

    They live in local authority hostel accommodation and the hostel wants to charge them 100 pounds a week to accommodate their family.

    What benefits are they entitled to?

    Answer.


  8. #148

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    Conditions:


    • be 18 or over but below State Pension age - there are some exceptions if you’re 16 or 17
    • not be in full-time education
    • be in England, Scotland or Wales
    • be able and available for work
    • be actively seeking work
    • work on average less than 16 hours a week
    • go to a JSA interview




    If you were working most of your adult life or receiving benefits, you qualify.



    Yes, correct.



    Really? Funny that you didn't take the time to substantiate that. What about rights to temporary shelter and the big one: housing benefit. Determining the level of eligibility is complicated but suffice it to say that everyone is entitled to it and it is means-based i.e. the poorer you are, the more the government will assist.
    You've completely oversimplified things. There are lots of ifs and buts and get-out clauses that you've either missed or aren't aware of. Have you actually tried claiming benefits in the UK? It can be a bit like making an insurance claim...you need to read the fine print and look at the exclusions.

  9. #149

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,880
    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    You've completely oversimplified things. There are lots of ifs and buts and get-out clauses that you've either missed or aren't aware of. Have you actually tried claiming benefits in the UK? It can be a bit like making an insurance claim...you need to read the fine print and look at the exclusions.
    I have just listed out the exact requirements from the government's own website and you still say I'm oversimplifying things? There are no ifs or buts: you qualify if you achieve the (eminently achievable) criteria. Re-read the criteria.

  10. #150

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,880

    Anyway, Bibbju, the point is that these benefits exist in the UK and are being claimed. This means that the poorest of society of the UK are entitled to a basic standard of life which is FAR in excess of having to picking out shit-covered cardboard from bins and live in cage homes. The fact that some members of society have to resort to doing this to survive is perfectly acceptable for some members of society. It isn't acceptable to me.

    As Moving pointed out, if there are problems with the UK system it is that they are all too easily claimable (to this extent, I agree with her). You're the first I have ever met to suggest UK welfare benefits are very difficult to obtain.

    Koen likes this.

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