Why FDH no need to go through a probation period !

[Koen]

People are terrified of a welfare state? In a "country" the size of Brussels (or sprout) with a current budget surplus of HK$64.9b no one should be living in a cage apartment, or having to push carts loaded with cardboard at eighty years old (unless they want to) it's completely wrong.

I believe very firmly that there is such a thing as a free lunch, its our duty to be able to recognise for who and when this is appropriate. This is not something Hong Kong has ever excelled at. A source of embarrassment and shame given the pig trough we have created here. Hence the recent flurry to establish a poverty line.

[iliketurtles]

Just for the sake of argument, I ran through the UK benefits calculator. It's fun. You should try.

Facts: INXS and his wife, Bibbju, have two chilren, 2 and 8. Unfortunately neither are skilled (university of "Life" for them) and, as we know, economic conditions are tough. Both healthy (although INXS has put some weight on over the years) so both are jobseekers.

They live in local authority hostel accommodation and the hostel wants to charge them 100 pounds a week to accommodate their family.

What benefits are they entitled to?

Answer.

[bibbju]

Conditions:

• be 18 or over but below State Pension age - there are some exceptions if you’re 16 or 17
• not be in full-time education
• be in England, Scotland or Wales
• be able and available for work
• be actively seeking work
• work on average less than 16 hours a week
• go to a JSA interview

If you were working most of your adult life or receiving benefits, you qualify.



Yes, correct.



Really? Funny that you didn't take the time to substantiate that. What about rights to temporary shelter and the big one: housing benefit. Determining the level of eligibility is complicated but suffice it to say that everyone is entitled to it and it is means-based i.e. the poorer you are, the more the government will assist.

You've completely oversimplified things. There are lots of ifs and buts and get-out clauses that you've either missed or aren't aware of. Have you actually tried claiming benefits in the UK? It can be a bit like making an insurance claim...you need to read the fine print and look at the exclusions.

[iliketurtles]

You've completely oversimplified things. There are lots of ifs and buts and get-out clauses that you've either missed or aren't aware of. Have you actually tried claiming benefits in the UK? It can be a bit like making an insurance claim...you need to read the fine print and look at the exclusions.

I have just listed out the exact requirements from the government's own website and you still say I'm oversimplifying things? There are no ifs or buts: you qualify if you achieve the (eminently achievable) criteria. Re-read the criteria.

[iliketurtles]

Anyway, Bibbju, the point is that these benefits exist in the UK and are being claimed. This means that the poorest of society of the UK are entitled to a basic standard of life which is FAR in excess of having to picking out shit-covered cardboard from bins and live in cage homes. The fact that some members of society have to resort to doing this to survive is perfectly acceptable for some members of society. It isn't acceptable to me.

As Moving pointed out, if there are problems with the UK system it is that they are all too easily claimable (to this extent, I agree with her). You're the first I have ever met to suggest UK welfare benefits are very difficult to obtain.

[closedcasket]

Has anyone actually taken the time to find out what entitlements Hong Kong gives out? I don't know for sure, but the guys at the local noodle shop complain all the time how hard it is to find staff, because people get paid more to do nothing. Between public housing, welfare, fruit money, transport money, education subsidies, medical etc it seems pretty good.

I would like to know the exact handouts given.. It seems most people here are unaware of all the programs in place and all the money that is doled out

[INXS]

The fact that some members of society have to resort to doing this to survive is perfectly acceptable for some members of society.

They don't have to resort to it, they choose to do it. If cardboard recycling was available in other countries you'd see it there too. It's not as simple as saying they get $x here vs. $x there...what is the cost of living? How many old people in the west would even be healthy enough to go out and work if they wanted to?

[MovingIn07]

Has anyone actually taken the time to find out what entitlements Hong Kong gives out? I don't know for sure, but the guys at the local noodle shop complain all the time how hard it is to find staff, because people get paid more to do nothing. Between public housing, welfare, fruit money, transport money, education subsidies, medical etc it seems pretty good.

I would like to know the exact handouts given.. It seems most people here are unaware of all the programs in place and all the money that is doled out

There are certainly more than I realised. I was talking to a local on a hike recently and they were complaining about mainlanders coming here for the welfare money. I said something like "what welfare money?" and was treated to a long discussion about how much money some people are getting! (Didn't sound like very much to be honest, and her beef seemed to be with locals getting mainland wives which seems legit to me, but it was certainly more than I had previously been aware of!)

[si0001]

Just for the sake of argument, I ran through the UK benefits calculator. It's fun. You should try.

Facts: INXS and his wife, Bibbju, have two chilren, 2 and 8. Unfortunately neither are skilled (university of "Life" for them) and, as we know, economic conditions are tough. Both healthy (although INXS has put some weight on over the years) so both are jobseekers.

They live in local authority hostel accommodation and the hostel wants to charge them 100 pounds a week to accommodate their family.

What benefits are they entitled to?

Answer.

This equates to around 20,500 per year NET or a guesstimate of 25,000 gross. Which means unless they find a job that pays far in excess of 25,000 per year it does not make any sense for them to work at all?

This is all great that they can have a decent standard of living but how is this sustainable and who exactly is going to do these low skill jobs that pays too little for anyone to come off benefits?

[MovingIn07]

This is all great that they can have a decent standard of living but how is this sustainable and who exactly is going to do these low skill jobs that pays too little for anyone to come off benefits?

Eastern European economic migrants. Thanks to the EU.