Plastic bags - what's the deal?

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  1. #21

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    The HKSAR government is not likely to do something that very few people want especially when environment is not a priority. Air quality is probably the worst problem in Hong Kong and they are not prepared to take any hard steps that might inconvenience the public or businesses. To think that they would force businesses to not use plastic bags is completely ludicrous when there are so many more things that are being neglected.

    This place is about money...Period!


  2. #22

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    Sleuth a flouro light that is left on 24 hours actually uses less energy than if its turned off and on once a day during a 12 hour operation. Most of the energy consumed in a flouro is during its starting current phase, maintaining the active flourine uses very little energy to be maintained.

    This obviously doesnt apply to constant draw lights like low voltage halogens, which HK shop keepers LOVE.

    Depends on the style of light used.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 29-05-2008 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #23

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    [QUOTE=Sleuth;218209][QUOTE=gilleshk;218120]
    What i would like to see is fines to shops that keep their doors open with the AC blasting out.
    [QUOTE]

    I think this is just a case of cost vs benefit. Electricity bill vs increased sales due to people window shopping/entering store to escape the heat.

    Simple answer = Increased energy prices/Energy Use Tax.

    Would this be popular with the masses though?


  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Sleuth a flouro light that is left on 24 hours actually uses less energy than if its turned off and on once a day during a 12 hour operation. Most of the energy consumed in a flouro is during its starting current phase, maintaining the active flourine uses very little energy to be maintained.

    This obviously doesnt apply to constant draw lights like low voltage halogens, which HK shop keepers LOVE.

    Depends on the style of light used.
    Despite the fact I will sound like a complete anorak. This was proved to be untrue on Mythbusters.

  5. #25

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    How hard is it to install an air curtain over a shop door ? Thus greatly improving the air conditioning efficiency if the shop owner has to leave the doors open. This is something that building code should enforce.

    In regard to air conditioning in HK, there is a massive ignorance here that has gone against the rest of the western worlds AC design condition HVAC specs, specs that were pioneered by DR Willis Carrier, that are widely recognised as HVAC law.

    All of this equates and points to a massive consumption attitude, that people here are willing to PAY for.

    I don't see any chance of society frugality here, not unless there is a major economic catastrophe, and then watch the purse strings snap tighter than the bite of a great white shark.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 29-05-2008 at 01:21 PM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by leghk:
    Despite the fact I will sound like a complete anorak. This was proved to be untrue on Mythbusters.

    Right.... so Mythbusters is the authority now, even faced with the fact that their test was conducted using 120V @ 60hz, not at 220-240V +/- 10% @ 50hz.

    Its not relevant here based on HK's native voltage alone, as conclusive data. I have actually done a case study on this on a commercial scale, the clamp meter and kw/hr meter don't lie.

    Ohms law...
    It takes one amp to push one volt through one watt. So...All things being equal an appliance or current draw device, that uses 4 amps at 120 volts will use 2 amps at 240 volts...half the power half the power bill...

    I've made this fairly simple as I figure you don't want a science lecture...
    Last edited by Skyhook; 29-05-2008 at 01:33 PM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Sleuth a flouro light that is left on 24 hours actually uses less energy than if its turned off and on once a day during a 12 hour operation. Most of the energy consumed in a flouro is during its starting current phase, maintaining the active flourine uses very little energy to be maintained.

    This obviously doesnt apply to constant draw lights like low voltage halogens, which HK shop keepers LOVE.

    Depends on the style of light used.
    Okay, then just the ones that are wasting electricity then. But I would like to see dark skies and stars.

    On the energy use tax, you penalise the masses because shopowners are wasting energy. Why can't they just be forced to use an "air curtain" (whatever that is). You would think the profit motive would be enough--keep the AC inside, lower the elctricty bill, increase profits.

    And everyone knows shops have AC, you don't need to advertise that by blasting it out on the street. AC wasn't just invented.

  8. #28

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    A simple photo of what an air curtain is.


    Basically its a focused jet of air that creates a barrier between non conditioned and and airconditioned space.


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    All things being equal an appliance or current draw device, that uses 4 amps at 120 volts will use 2 amps at 240 volts...half the power half the power bill...

    I've made this fairly simple as I figure you don't want a science lecture...
    Er, oh dear. You are the one who really needs to go back to school on this.

    Ohm's Law does not mention Power at all. Ohm's Law is that V=IR (voltage = current * resistance).

    The equation you need is Power = Voltage * Current (P = VI)
    4 amps at 120 volts is 480W
    2 amps at 240 volts is 480W

    Electricity is charged by the kWh.

    You pay exactly the same in each case.

    It is really quite alarming that you imply that you do work in this area professionally (case studies with meters and so on).
    Last edited by PDLM; 29-05-2008 at 02:02 PM.

  10. #30

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    This link explains fluorescent lighting quite well. Lighting Design Lab Articles - How Often Should I Turn Off My Fluorescent Lighting?

    They come up with a time of about 15-20 minutes including costs other than power alone.


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