Plastic bags - what's the deal?

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Right.... so Mythbusters is the authority now, even faced with the fact that their test was conducted using 120V @ 60hz, not at 220-240V +/- 10% @ 50hz.

    Its not relevant here based on HK's native voltage alone, as conclusive data. I have actually done a case study on this on a commercial scale, the clamp meter and kw/hr meter don't lie.

    Ohms law...
    It takes one amp to push one volt through one watt. So...All things being equal an appliance or current draw device, that uses 4 amps at 120 volts will use 2 amps at 240 volts...half the power half the power bill...

    I've made this fairly simple as I figure you don't want a science lecture...
    After years of being a child and recieving repeated clips around the ear for turning the light off in our kitchen, (playing strobe light turned my old man into Homer Simpson) i gained great pleasure in telling him he was talking out his arse for 10 years. Permission to stick with Mythbusters findings for purely selfish reasons?

    On your previous question. (just thinking aloud)

    - Ban all bags that cause damage to the env.
    - Strict conditions/taxes/fines on packaging at source.
    - Waste rationing - Allocate a certain size/weight limit on personal and business waste. Charges for exceeding this limit.
    How? - allocate each family and business with a coded bag for each type of waste -sized/number according to allowed limit -These sealed bags are collected/dropped at a certain point. They are then processed where weight and type of waste contained is recorded (bit sketchy here). Any excess/wrong bagging results in charges. Being under the limits could include a rebate.
    Heavy penalties for fly-tipping abuse of the system etc.
    Last edited by leghk; 29-05-2008 at 06:53 PM. Reason: crap typing...as usual

  2. #32

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    There are plenty of good ideas to be implemented but this government will not do anything that might inconvenience businesses. Heck it took them years to pass the anti smoking law... We might see a partial ban on plastic bag by 2050


  3. #33

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    Hmmm....

    I for one, don't really care to follow the latest prescription for saving the environment. Every single solution I've heard so far have caused more problems down the road.

    Energy saving bulbs = mercury pollution
    Use paper bags = kill trees
    Use canvas bags = loss of jobs at a plastic bag factory in China
    Hydropower = blocked river pathways
    Nuclear power = radioactive waste
    etc.

    What it comes down to is the elimination of man's footprint on Earth and I'm not about to kill myself.


  4. #34

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    What he says is one of the reason why things move very slowly. There's a significant portion of the public that either don't care or are cynical with good reasons. We simply don't know what we're doing and pretending we are... Man's ultimate arrogance is our downfall.

    Yet there are choice to make that are the lesser of two evils. For example, the reality is that we need energy, we must try to reduce but in the end a choice has to be made.

    Hydro vs nuclear vs coal vs oil that can be a tough choice

    jobs/money vs environment

    Let's say the government passes a law forcing all public transport to go to cleaner fuel. I think that would make a significant improvement to the air quality but at a very high cost that would be passed on to the consumer. Very unpopular decision but in the end it could also save on healthcare.

    There are always two sides to an issue and that's why government sometimes must make the tough decisions. The smoking ban is an excellent example of that... Yes businesses lose out a bit but the benefits far outweigh the downsides which is why many governments have opted to do so and more are following suit every year.


  5. #35

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    gilleshk: You're putting it in better words than I am.

    Arrogance is exactly right. I am not unsympathetic to the cause for saving the world. But most of the pundits don't really know what the impact of their ideas are going to be. They simply give out one solution after another without gathering enough data and figuring out the unintended consequences.

    Recycling aluminum, paper and glass makes sense.

    zenlogo : it's quite arrogant for you to assume that jobs are not related to the environment. Many solutions related to saving the environment are expensive and cannot be afforded by the average citizen of Earth.

    Using my logic...we should all shut off our PC, stop buying automobiles, don't exercise, all in an effort to reduce our footprint. Will you all do it? Give me a break.


  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:

    Using my logic...we should all shut off our PC, stop buying automobiles, don't exercise, all in an effort to reduce our footprint. Will you all do it? Give me a break.
    We are all gonna die!!!

    Sensible logic would be to use computers to reduce energy use - video conferencing, working from home to reduce need for travel etc. (reduced consumption of oil, lower pollution, cheaper)

    Exercise??? - Are you referring to using the wii or in the gym. How about walking instead of using the bus, stairs instead of the escaltor????

    Yes, stop buying automobiles. if not possible buy more efficient or alternative fuel source vehicles

  7. #37

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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by leghk:
    We are all gonna die!!!

    Sensible logic would be to use computers to reduce energy use - video conferencing, working from home to reduce need for travel etc. (reduced consumption of oil, lower pollution, cheaper)

    Exercise??? - Are you referring to using the wii or in the gym. How about walking instead of using the bus, stairs instead of the escaltor????

    Yes, stop buying automobiles. if not possible buy more efficient or alternative fuel source vehicles
    Each person can come up with different rationalizations and justifications for using some resource. I'm not knocking your lifestyle, but I'd just prefer other people stop knocking mine.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    But most of the pundits don't really know what the impact of their ideas are going to be. They simply give out one solution after another without gathering enough data and figuring out the unintended consequences.
    Certainly true in a lot of cases. Look at the US and bio-fuels. We use more energy turning corn into a fuel additive than we would have used just burning the gas. As a bonus, we drive the price of feed for cattle and food for people up. While ignoring the same type of thing coming out of Brazil (because Brazilians can't vote in US elections) with a better energy footprint.
    Really, not a well-thought out policy. Unless the real reason is to reduce oil dependency, but it hasn't been sold that way.

  9. #39

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    The reality is that most people won't be doing much for the environment unless it touches their pocket book.

    Many people have a hard time stopping self destructive things such as gambling, overeating, smoking, drugs and alcohol and you expect them to care about what might happen in 50-1000 years?

    Hence the reason for governments to establish poicies that are sound. Of course, it takes 1000 of hours to debate, play politics and finally making a decision which ultimately might be proven wrong.

    I certainly don't expect us to be able to save the planet. We are way too selfish and arrogant to be able to do this in time. I am positive we will kill ourselves in the long run but fortunately I probably won't be there to witness it. In the meantime I try do to what I can with what I think is right although I seriously doubt it matters much.


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    Each person can come up with different rationalizations and justifications for using some resource. I'm not knocking your lifestyle, but I'd just prefer other people stop knocking mine.

    Is that not the same attitude as smoking in a public restaurant,cinema,hospital etc and then when someone complains you tell them to FO and mind their own business?

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