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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    Perhaps the reason you used Maoris as your example was because NZ is hardly a hotbed of multiculturalism and that was the only alternative ethnic background you had experience of?
    Hi all, been reading the forums for a while and wanted to chime in. Interesting topic but have to disagree (in part) with bibbju's statement. Comparatively to Australia you're probably right in assuming that NZ as a whole may not be as ethnically diverse but on a regional level it's there.

    Auckland has the largest Polynesian population in the world. The stats from the last census in fact show that the fastest growing ethnic group(s) are Asian followed closely by Maori and Polynesian. There have been many studies pointing to the 'browning' of Auckland. In fact the second most spoken language after English is Samoan.

    I'm not an expert on Australia and it's cultural makeup but know enough to say that in my opinion, comparatively speaking…..Maori vs Aboriginal rights whatever that means are vastly different. I think a good indicator of a nations cultural makeup should't be confined to just who owns a business.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibbju:
    Perhaps you misunderstood my post! Yes I have experience of both countries. Most recently (March) I was in Melbourne staying with an Aussie friend in St Kilda to meet a small business owner and I was in Auckland (twice) in March again meeting with small business owners. I don't disagree with anything you've written above except I personally know several Abo business owners (in NSW). From my perspective, the discussion was actually about people from different ethnic backgrounds rather than specifically Abos or Maoris. I mentioned Abos purely as the indigenous people for Aus since you referred to Maoris specifically. Perhaps the reason you used Maoris as your example was because NZ is hardly a hotbed of multiculturalism and that was the only alternative ethnic background you had experience of?
    ? No, we're misunderstanding each other. I am mentioning Aborigines and Maoris as a contrast...

    Someone said Australia is better at multiculturalism than New Zealand...I'm isolating out the experience of indigenous people to show that this is not always the case...
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    ? No, we're misunderstanding each other. I am mentioning Aborigines and Maoris as a contrast...

    Someone said Australia is better at multiculturalism than New Zealand...I'm isolating out the experience of indigenous people to show that this is not always the case...
    You are confusing multi-cultural with bicultural. New Zealand claims to be the latter not the former.

    They don't do multiculturalism very well, in fact they don't do biculturalism very well either. NZ struggles with both because they define themselves by ethnicity and arguments of cultural superiority based on ethnicity.

    Having been born in NZ and lived in Australia, I much prefer the Aussie multiculturalism, because it assumes nothing about superiority, just accepts difference. Sure there are racists there, just as there are anywhere, but on the whole you will find Australia far more accepting than NZ.

    Edit: Unless you are a boat-using asylum seeker. Aussies don't do those very well.
    Last edited by kimwy66; 05-04-2014 at 11:43 AM.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Edit: Unless you are a boat-using asylum seeker. Aussies don't do those very well.
    Which the Vietnamese had to put up with early on, having grown up in Footscray, where bulk of the Vietnamese boat people live. I went to school with the very first Vietnamese children of refugees, I can honestly say it does take time to be fully accepted. 2 to 3 decades usually. The Vietnamese community has integrated well ( for example ) and quite a few of my Viet mates bought second hand Holden VH / VK commodore V8's as their first car, which in my opinion made them a bit cooler than other Asians who would have bought a brand new, base model Honda civic with Mugen Stickers and a fart cannon exhaust tip.

    Now Australia has another wave of immigration via Somalia, India, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc etc and like everybody else before them, ( including my own family ) they are just going to have to go through the motions ie cut their teeth and get on with it the best way they can.
    Last edited by Skyhook; 05-04-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    You are confusing multi-cultural with bicultural. New Zealand claims to be the latter not the former.

    They don't do multiculturalism very well, in fact they don't do biculturalism very well either. NZ struggles with both because they define themselves by ethnicity and arguments of cultural superiority based on ethnicity.

    Having been born in NZ and lived in Australia, I much prefer the Aussie multiculturalism, because it assumes nothing about superiority, just accepts difference. Sure there are racists there, just as there are anywhere, but on the whole you will find Australia far more accepting than NZ.

    Edit: Unless you are a boat-using asylum seeker. Aussies don't do those very well.
    Eh? I'm not confusing anything thank you! I agree with you about multiculturalism in Australia and New Zealand. I am adding something else to the mix which is the situation of the indigenous people in both countries which, in my opinion, is better in New Zealand.


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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    Eh? I'm not confusing anything thank you! I agree with you about multiculturalism in Australia and New Zealand. I am adding something else to the mix which is the situation of the indigenous people in both countries which, in my opinion, is better in New Zealand.


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    I understand what you mean and agree, Maori people and Samoan folks tend to have a much better representation in the community via business and especially in the parliament/govt etc. How many indigenous members of the community are represented in the govts of say the United States of America and Australia ? NZ and Hawaii ( local govt ) would be exceptions to the rule.

    So I know what you mean and agree with you.

    It would be Awesome if the USA had a native American Indian as president, or an Aboriginal as prime minister of Australia or a Maori elected prime minister of NZ. NZ it will probably happen though.....
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  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    I understand what you mean and agree, Maori people and Samoan folks tend to have a much better representation in the community via business and especially in the parliament/govt etc. How many indigenous members of the community are represented in the govts of say the United States of America and Australia ? NZ and Hawaii ( local govt ) would be exceptions to the rule.

    So I know what you mean and agree with you.

    It would be Awesome if the USA had a native American Indian as president, or an Aboriginal as prime minister of Australia or a Maori elected prime minister of NZ. NZ it will probably happen though.....
    I can very easily imagine a Maori being P.M. of N.Z. There is historical precedent, wasn't there a Maori P.M. for a few years before WW1?

  8. #68

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    Why does ethnicity matter at all. Why not a NZ born ethnically Chinese Prime Minister in NZ? They have been there almost as long as the Europeans. Why not Vietnamese or Samoan? Why not just the person that will do the job?


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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Why does ethnicity matter at all. Why not a NZ born ethnically Chinese Prime Minister in NZ? They have been there almost as long as the Europeans. Why not Vietnamese or Samoan? Why not just the person that will do the job?


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    Agreed.

    But, if I were a betting man:

    Assuming the candidates were evenly qualified...

    I'd back the Maori against the Chinese to be P.M. in N.Z.

    I'd back the Chinese against the Aborigine in Oz

    In fact, I'd back the Maori/Samoan/etc. against the Aborigine in Oz

    That's how I guess the cookie would crumble, not necessarily how I would vote...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Why not just the person that will do the job?


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    You are asking too much for average Joe to figure this out.

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