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Cold weather for expats

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  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRotavator:
    Are you saying that if there was a special 'icy road in Tai Mo Shan' warning, all those people would not have gone up? I think that's BS.
    The problem is the spectacular lack of common sense generally and also the very poor driving skills of these sunday drivers.
    Yes, there were crappy drivers. But that is not the main issue. Like I said, HK has not really experienced icy roads in prior cases of temperature approaching or below freezing at TMO. It is usually dry condition with no or very little precipitation. They cannot be expected to know exactly what the conditions are like up there. Not even the HKO does until after the fact.

    This is not about common sense but a lack of experience. Sure, they know water freezes at 0, but they really don't know what that environment is like. That is the issue. To expect them to know what these conditions are like as if they lived in cooler and more temperate latitudes is unrealistic.

    But now they do know. So next time similar conditions occur at HK, most should act a lot smarter....hopefully. Lesson learned. Price for stupidity and lack of experience is paid.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 24-01-2016 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRotavator:
    Are you saying that if there was a special 'icy road in Tai Mo Shan' warning, all those people would not have gone up? I think that's BS.
    The problem is the spectacular lack of common sense generally and also the very poor driving skills of these sunday drivers.
    The term 'common sense' is being bandied around in this thread as if it's the be all and end all of it.

    'Common sense' is derived from a person's experience, be it if they have experienced these kind of icy/cold conditions before so they know if to go up to TMS or know how to drive in icy conditions, to knowing if there is a pyramid on Mars from gaining knowledge through the years.

    To locals, in the context of this thread, this 'common sense' of knowing how to cope with these cold conditions just does not exist, not because they don't have common sense, but rather many locals in HK have never experienced it before.

  3. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proplus:
    To locals, in the context of this thread, this 'common sense' of knowing how to cope with these cold conditions just does not exist, not because they don't have common sense, but rather many locals in HK have never experienced it before.
    I would argue that 'common sense' is exactly the opposite...it is learning that isn't based on experience...rather, it's having the smarts to figure out the consequences of actions without having prior experience. Common sense is about predicting outcomes based on limited information...

  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proplus:
    The term 'common sense' is being bandied around in this thread as if it's the be all and end all of it.

    'Common sense' is derived from a person's experience, be it if they have experienced these kind of icy/cold conditions before so they know if to go up to TMS or know how to drive in icy conditions, to knowing if there is a pyramid on Mars from gaining knowledge through the years.

    To locals, in the context of this thread, this 'common sense' of knowing how to cope with these cold conditions just does not exist, not because they don't have common sense, but rather many locals in HK have never experienced it before.
    Well said.

    I think we should also turn our attention to the police and firemen who have been trying to do their best to shephard stranded hikers down TMO. Yes, its their job, but we should applaud them for performing a vital service in unfamiliar conditions (iced up roads and sub-zero temperature).

    Whatever one thinks of the hikers up at TMO (lack of common sense vs lack of experience), we should be thankful we still have a responsive police and firemen doing their best to remedy the situation...at least in this context anyway.

  5. #135

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    Common Sense | Definition of Common sense by Merriam-Webster

    Synonym Discussion of common sense

    sense, common sense, judgment, wisdom mean ability to reach intelligent conclusions. sense implies a reliable ability to judge and decide with soundness, prudence, and intelligence <a choice showing good sense>. common sense suggests an average degree of such ability without sophistication or special knowledge <common sense tells me it's wrong>.

    As opposed to

    judgment implies sense tempered and refined by experience, training, and maturity <they relied on her judgment for guidance>. wisdom implies sense and judgment far above average <a leader of rare wisdom>.


  6. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dashwood:
    I would argue that 'common sense' is exactly the opposite...it is learning that isn't based on experience...rather, it's having the smarts to figure out the consequences of actions without having prior experience. Common sense is about predicting outcomes based on limited information...
    Wrong again. If common sense is inherent and we are borned with it, why are there such things as culture clash? Or different social custom and practices? Because different societies have different norms. You are not borned with knowing what social norms are. They are transmitted to you as you grow and learn. And that is what we call common sense. It is context-dependent, not universal. Learning is not special knowledge. It is what everyone does. Nor is it necessarily sophisticated.

    TMO is not a matter common sense but judgment. Your common sense only tells you it will be cold up there, it doesn't tell you how cold it is or whether icy roads will form. That requires knowledge and experience.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 24-01-2016 at 11:34 PM.

  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dashwood:
    Common Sense | Definition of Common sense by Merriam-Webster

    Synonym Discussion of common sense

    sense, common sense, judgment, wisdom mean ability to reach intelligent conclusions. sense implies a reliable ability to judge and decide with soundness, prudence, and intelligence <a choice showing good sense>. common sense suggests an average degree of such ability without sophistication or special knowledge <common sense tells me it's wrong>.

    As opposed to

    judgment implies sense tempered and refined by experience, training, and maturity <they relied on her judgment for guidance>. wisdom implies sense and judgment far above average <a leader of rare wisdom>.

    Precisely, you need judgment to know what sub zero temperature is actually like. Your common sense tells you almost nothing. It only tells you at most to dress warmly. It doesn't tell you what sort of condition will be on TMO. That is based on experience. And experience shapes your judgment. Thank you for showing it is a lack of experience, not a lack of common sense that stranded the hikers at TMO.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 24-01-2016 at 11:37 PM.

  8. #138

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    You think everyone reads geoexpat?

    All we know beforehand was that it was going to be very cold for HK. We didn't say anything about conditions beside speculation of snow. Frankly, no one really knew what the condition will be like.

    No one has any experience with such cold in HK. Simply saying there were cold weather warnings mean nothing. HK's previous cold warnings before all had no icy condition.

    Also, you have a failure of reading comprehension. Of course everyone know water freezes, but no one knew the precipitation amount. Knowing it might be freezing and knowing what that is actually like are two different things. People don't know what freezing conditions really are like until they experience it themselves.

    Its not a crock of shit, its just some of us has a better grasp of reality.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 24-01-2016 at 11:52 PM.

  9. #139

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    I guess that's why the emergency services are coping so well themselves.


  10. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proplus:
    I guess that's why the emergency services are coping so well themselves.
    That must be their "common sense", who needs training or knowledge. Common sense determines everything for certain posters. It makes you an expert in dealing with freezing cold weather without ever experiencing it beforehand. It makes you know better than the HKO. In fact, who needs expert and professionals, we have "common" sense!
    Last edited by Cho-man; 24-01-2016 at 11:57 PM.

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