Like Tree48Likes

Witholding a passport, legal bit.

Closed Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by MandM!:
    Obviously our Employers do not hold our passport. But for a Helper I could see why some Employers do or would want to. The relationship is different, I don't live with my Employer, the helper does, and they come from relatively low education and may be more vulnerable than people who come from first world countries.

    The moral part comes from whether it was forcibly held or not. If it was simply put let me hold your passport for safe keeping and there was no objection nor request for it back, what's the problem? Many Chinese may wish to keep in a safe for safe keeping, the people here are a bit over protective like that. It is really people like us bringing our foreign values here and saying that they are wrong and immoral without fully understanding their intention. It isn't the way to behave.
    It's unusual to see such a racist bigot posting here. Most likely you are a troll, but whoever you are, crawl back under your stone
    merchantms likes this.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    6,317
    Quote Originally Posted by MrRotavator:
    It's unusual to see such a racist bigot posting here. Most likely you are a troll, but whoever you are, crawl back under your stone
    Everyone is allowed to share their views. It is you who is attacking. Simply disagree, grow up...
    Hofer, shri, chuckster007 and 1 others like this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MandM!:
    Everyone is allowed to share their views. It is you who is attacking. Simply disagree, grow up...
    So to summarise your argument: helpers are ill-educated and come from poor countries. They are not capable of making their own financial decisions, so caring employers should hold their passports for safekeeping.

    Do you think we should perhaps make them wear something distinctive, so we can identify this underclass? Maybe a yellow star sewn onto their clothing would be suitable?

    I'm pretty sure you're trolling, so no more bait from me. Back under your bridge

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    6,317

    And sadly I just saw this on SCMP. I don't hold my helpers passport, but if their was a way I thought I could protect her, I would.

    ‘Life plans on hold, no money to send home’: Indonesian domestic helpers in Hong Kong fall prey to alleged pyramid scam | South China Morning Post

    chuckster007 likes this.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,768
    Quote Originally Posted by MandM!:
    Agree to disagree....
    No.

    On the scam, millions of people get caught in scams should we hold all their passports?

    You are deliberately mixing two situations. Keeping the passport somewhere safe at the helper's request is fine. That is not what is being talked about here though. Keeping the passport not at the helper's request is theft.

    How about if it was their money? Clearly they can't be trusted with money.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,879
    Original Post Deleted
    I believe for it to be Theft you'd need to have intent to never return the camera. I assume your example would simply be a case for a civil court if you want your camera back or compensation...

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,879

    I really have no idea.

    For reference:
    http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_pdf.nsf/6799165D2FEE3FA94825755E0033E532/AC628B0C8930CE4F482575EE004D2B22/$FILE/CAP_210_e_b5.pdf

    Sounds as if it depends on the case and comes down to the situation and intent.

    The problem in HK is that laws are often not enforced. As said, I reported a case about my helper and a dozen more passports and they didn't seem to care... months after making a written report, the only questions ever asked were "what nationality are you?" (stupid question, it was in the first sentence of my written report, and I am a HKPR anyway) and "what nationality is your helper?". And that was the end of it.

    So I am definitely surprised to read this and will ask my helper if her acquaintances got their passports back in the meantime but I assume she would have told me (it was 2012 or 2013).

    10. The Administration further advised that an EA or any other person withholding a FDH's passport without the latter's consent would have committed an offence under the Theft Ordinance (Cap. 210). Whenever such malpractice was detected by officers of EAA during their inspections to EAs, they would take appropriate enforcement action and refer the case to the Hong Kong Police Force for follow-up. EAA, the Police and ImmD would regularly conduct joint operations to ensure that EAs were operating in compliance with the law.
    N.B. But the big crime (in my opinion) in my reported case was not only keeping their passport, but also charging them a lot more ($9,000 in the case of our helper), instead of the $3xx they are allowed to. The passport was used to make them pay.
    Last edited by 100LL; 05-09-2016 at 08:04 AM.
    jgl likes this.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,188
    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    Exact reason why I don't get a helper. Too many legal consequences for employer/employee as the former is responsible for the latter and there is very little protection for either. Hence employers resort to this type of action. Since I can't morally justify these actions, I stay away from this type of relationship. There are no consequences to having a messy home.
    Most people have a helper because they are working parents. Not because they want a clean house. Don't be ridiculous. If there was child day care or live out was legal no way I'd have a live in FDH.
    chuckster007 likes this.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,768
    Quote Originally Posted by 100LL:
    I believe for it to be Theft you'd need to have intent to never return the camera. I assume your example would simply be a case for a civil court if you want your camera back or compensation...
    If I took your money and held onto it, though I did intend to return it sometime, that would not be theft?

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,188
    Original Post Deleted
    I'd have to Google it but I remember reading that the majority of households with FDH have children in them. Local families tend to have both parents working compared to expats where there's more often a stay at home trailing spouse.

    Presumably you don't have a helper because your wife doesn't work. I'm a working mom, no grandparents locally, so helper is my only choice. Before we had our kid we had a once a week cleaner. None of my colleagues without kids have helpers either.