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Witholding a passport, legal bit.

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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Most people have a helper because they are working parents. Not because they want a clean house. Don't be ridiculous. If there was child day care or live out was legal no way I'd have a live in FDH.
    That's what I'm saying, if live out was legal, it would reduce the mothering of the employer over the employee. But instead Immigration relies on employers to police their employee like telling them to keep their employee from part-time work, can't stay out, etc.

    As for daycare, if enough people rejected the FDH system, they'd find and create alternatives. People become very creative under duress. If the system was abolished at this moment, the job market would get squeezed so hard, that within an instance employers would offer flexi-hours, part-time work, and child care benefits to their employees. Unfortunately, at this stage, employers can always say, just go get a helper, and continue there draconian labour practices. There's a huge opportunity here for locals to dramatically increase their salaries and there would also be some possibility for real immigration.
    TheBrit, hullexile and jmbf like this.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    That's what I'm saying, if live out was legal, it would reduce the mothering of the employer over the employee. But instead Immigration relies on employers to police their employee like telling them to keep their employee from part-time work, can't stay out, etc.

    As for daycare, if enough people rejected the FDH system, they'd find and create alternatives. People become very creative under duress. If the system was abolished at this moment, the job market would get squeezed so hard, that within an instance employers would offer flexi-hours, part-time work, and child care benefits to their employees. Unfortunately, at this stage, employers can always say, just go get a helper, and continue there draconian labour practices. There's a huge opportunity here for locals to dramatically increase their salaries and there would also be some possibility for real immigration.
    My understanding is that rent prices and licensing rules are the main factors against daycare. There is one opening in Happy Valley this year, we will see if it succeeds.

    I agree on the rest though, working parents are squeezed because the FDH system is meant to pick up all of the slack.

    Anyway as to the topic: my helper said that they get training and are told not to give their passports to their employer. That there are even NGOs who hand out pamphlets at the airport when flights from Phils arrive saying the same. She was therefore quite dismissive of claims that helpers didn't know they can refuse to hand it over. However she's fairly educated and an assertive lady so I don't know how representative she is.
    civil_servant likes this.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    If I took your money and held onto it, though I did intend to return it sometime, that would not be theft?
    His example was him borrowing the camera to you, not you taking it.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    My understanding is that rent prices and licensing rules are the main factors against daycare. There is one opening in Happy Valley this year, we will see if it succeeds.

    I agree on the rest though, working parents are squeezed because the FDH system is meant to pick up all of the slack.

    Anyway as to the topic: my helper said that they get training and are told not to give their passports to their employer. That there are even NGOs who hand out pamphlets at the airport when flights from Phils arrive saying the same. She was therefore quite dismissive of claims that helpers didn't know they can refuse to hand it over. However she's fairly educated and an assertive lady so I don't know how representative she is.
    Imagine the situation though. You have borrowed money you can't afford to take up the job in HK. You know you can refuse to hand over your passport so you are faced with two options if the employer demands it:

    - give them the passport, earn money feed your family

    - stand up for your rights, get terminated, fly home with no income to pay off the debts and your kids go hungry

    Knowing the law is useless if the only person who ends up being punished is you.
    TheBrit, 100LL, jmbf and 1 others like this.

  5. #35

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    Original Post Deleted
    Maybe but then you have so many people feeling they have to send their kids to playgroup 3-4 days a week to make up for the fact that there's no social interaction with other children at home with a helper all day.

    So if you add up $4.2K for the helper and then another $5K for playgroups (and there are other enrolment fees and hidden costs) you are looking are more like $10K a month for baby/toddler childcare activities. Also the helper cost you need to add food, insurance, and housing.

    My understanding of the Happy Valley daycare is that demand has well exceeded supply but again will see when it actually opens.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Maybe but then you have so many people feeling they have to send their kids to playgroup 3-4 days a week to make up for the fact that there's no social interaction with other children at home with a helper all day.

    So if you add up $4.2K for the helper and then another $5K for playgroups (and there are other enrolment fees and hidden costs) you are looking are more like $10K a month for baby/toddler childcare activities. Also the helper cost you need to add food, insurance, and housing.

    My understanding of the Happy Valley daycare is that demand has well exceeded supply but again will see when it actually opens.
    They could just use all of the clubhouses during the day, which the maids use already anyway. Often times facilities are rarely used in the daytime. There's also building management, maintenance, bathroom facilities, and security in place. It would be extremely convenient for parents and these centres could close by 4pm for when others want to use the facilities, which could give parents the perfect excuse to leave work early for the time being. I understand that not everyone has access to a clubhouse, but it's an easy solution that could be easily be implemented for a large segment of the population. I mean we hire lifeguards for clubhouses to look at empty pools all day, we may as well hire trained nannies as well.
    TheBrit likes this.

  7. #37

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    Original Post Deleted
    Employing a local at minimum wage isn't actually that much more expensive, the minimum wage is total shite here. Rent, utilities, maintenance and basic set up costs would be the initial killer and would mean that daycare services would have to charge so much it would become unaffordable for a large percentage of the local population. It would take a massive overhaul of wages, public housing, etc to make such a thing even feasible.

    There are currently daycare centres available, generally on public housing estates, that charge according to income. These do however resemble Romanian orphanages and would probably be the template of universal daycare across HK should it ever happen. Business here is well known for looking at the $$$. Just take a look at the elderly care homes.
    chuckster007 and z754103 like this.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    They could just use all of the clubhouses during the day, which the maids use already anyway. Often times facilities are rarely used in the daytime. There's also building management, maintenance, bathroom facilities, and security in place. It would be extremely convenient for parents and these centres could close by 4pm for when others want to use the facilities, which could give parents the perfect excuse to leave work early for the time being. I understand that not everyone has access to a clubhouse, but it's an easy solution that could be easily be implemented for a large segment of the population. I mean we hire lifeguards for clubhouses to look at empty pools all day, we may as well hire trained nannies as well.
    It's a good idea. But I'm sure there's some nonsensical reason why this wouldn't be allowed or why HK property owners wouldn't want it to happen in their buildings.
    civil_servant likes this.

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