What do you think are the root causes of pollution

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    A racist, simplistic argument if I ever read one.

    Chinese people, or the consumerist Westerners whcountries which fuel the demand for low cost, high polluting factories in developing nations?
    Interesting. It is the fault of the consumers that the PRC has no environmental rules? Or rules that are followed?
    The consumers do not demand high polluting factories, almost the opposite.
    Although, it is also not the fault of the Chinese people in general as they have no say in 99% of what goes on in their lives.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojak83:
    To be more precise: Chinese People

    I remember watching a TV documentary where they tested the air in Washington State (West coast of U.S.), and they detected pollutants which drifted all the way across the Atlantic from factories in Mainland China.
    You probably meant 'across the Pacific', but you'd probably find pollutants in Europe that drifted across the Atlantic from the US as well...what's your point?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    You probably meant 'across the Pacific', but you'd probably find pollutants in Europe that drifted across the Atlantic from the US as well...what's your point?
    Yep - McDonalds, Coke, rap music, Friends, baseball caps, Microsoft spelling. Luckily managed to keep the level of contamination from baseball and American 'football' to a minimum.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth:
    Interesting. It is the fault of the consumers that the PRC has no environmental rules? Or rules that are followed?
    The consumers do not demand high polluting factories, almost the opposite.
    Although, it is also not the fault of the Chinese people in general as they have no say in 99% of what goes on in their lives.
    I'd actually have to disagree with you there. Consumers *do* demand highly polluting factories because they demand *cheap* products.

    The hunt for ever cheaper products means that factories that do the right thing are too expensive to remain competitive, factories that cut corners are cheaper and are preferred by people who do sourcing. Wal Mart is the classic example here- they demand annual price decreases from suppliers with no consideration to what this really means at earlier points in the supply chain. And what it means is that factories cut corners with the environment, with safety, with wages and devote some management time to fool the incredibly token attempts at inspection made by their overseas buyers.

    Consumers *say* they want to care for the environment, but they really vote with their wallets, and that vote usually goes to the cheapest deal.

  5. #15

    So, for sake of argument is it better to use more fuel to be clean?

    I think there is a balance. Somewhere.

    It has been mentioned that 'cheap' factories make the most pollution, I don't think it is so simple. Big factories can usually make things cheaper, because they are more efficient, but probably pump out more pollution because they are big.

    The real problem is there are too many people - that point always seems to be ignored.


  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Yep - McDonalds, Coke, rap music, Friends, baseball caps, Microsoft spelling. Luckily managed to keep the level of contamination from baseball and American 'football' to a minimum.
    Isn't Twenty 20 cricket sort of an Americanized version? A step toward baseball? The game is faster and actually ends before the week is out.

    And it still isn't the consumer's fault. Jusat because they demand cheaper doesn't mean it has to be supplied. And it isn't Wal-Mart's fault. They aren't forcing the factories to do anything. It is the factories' greed for the orders and lack of care about safety and environment and everything else in the blind pursuit of profits and/or volume. Not every factory will stoop to conquer.
    If China had/enforced some environmental and safety standards, the stuff would not be as cheap and people would either have to pay more or go without. I bet they would just pay more.
    Although it is a shame that Wal Mart factories aren't exposed like, say, Nike's are.

  7. #17

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    but as long as a factory has the opportunity to be 'the cheapest supplier' and hence get more orders, by flouting environmental regs (if there are any) it will continue to happen....you're right tho, strictly enforced govt regulations applied across the board to all factories (even those owned by 'friends' of the officials enforcing the regs,) might be a step in the right direction...it comes down to basic human greed at every level...'damn the environment if I can make a buck'...


  8. #18

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    so far the results on what can be done to reduce pollution are

    24% Laws for minimum insulation requirements of buildings
    18% Higher peak time tolls & HOT lanes
    18% Extend the clean marine fuel zone
    12% Pollution from GuangDong Factories
    9% ISO 14064-1:2006 mandatory for all listed Companies
    7% Ban Smoking in all buildings
    7% Comprehensive idling Engine ban
    5% Improve Buses, truck and ships.


    have your vote
    Customer Feedback & Ideas for Pollution in Hong Kong


  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    but as long as a factory has the opportunity to be 'the cheapest supplier' and hence get more orders, by flouting environmental regs (if there are any) it will continue to happen....you're right tho, strictly enforced govt regulations applied across the board to all factories (even those owned by 'friends' of the officials enforcing the regs,) might be a step in the right direction...it comes down to basic human greed at every level...'damn the environment if I can make a buck'...
    Right. This is one area where the government can be a help. The US went through the same thing, although perhaps not to the same scale. You used to be able to set rivers on fire in the US. If it weren't for the Clean Air/Water acts, the US would have neither in some places.
    But you can't allow cheating by friends, because everybody has them in China.