Help needed for my feature story..

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  1. #1

    Post Help needed for my feature story..

    Hello all,

    I'm a student and lately I've been writing a feature story on the life of expats in Hong Kong. Here I would like to throw a few questions and hopefully you can help me know more about the subjects.

    1. how do you describe your working environment here? Are you satisfied with it?
    2. how do you think about the life here? Stressful or stress-free?
    3. Do you hang out with local people? How often?
    4. What do you think of the local people?

    If you have been here since before 1997, you are especially welcomed to help me with these:
    5. Do you think the government has done enough to attract people to come and work in Hong Kong?
    6. Statistics have shown that the number of expats in Hong Kong have dropped by 10,000 between 1996 to 2006. What do you think is the reason?

    You are welcomed to add something else

    Thank you so much!! I'm really looking forward to seeing your answers!


  2. #2

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    1. how do you describe your working environment here? Are you satisfied with it?

    Its a Job, no such thing as job satisfaction in my book. I see how the locals are treated in comparison to us expats and it makes me sick. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do to change how the system is setup and is operated here.

    2. how do you think about the life here? Stressful or stress-free?

    Life here is ok, quality of life is terrible for a lot of people. The lack of upward mobility here for a lot of people is not pleasant. There is a large disparity between the have's versus the have not's. A lot of people earn 10K or less here per month, its a tough life for them.

    Personally, for myself its not stressful.

    3. Do you hang out with local people? How often?

    Yes I do, all the time and I hang out with people in China as well.

    4. What do you think of the local people?

    The locals are nice, I feel bad for a majority of them because I think they are being exploited by the rich. I think the locals should be paid more for what they contribute to the over all economy in Hong Kong and the overall environment.

    In the states its possible for someone who works in blue collar to become rich and successful. In Hong Kong there seems to this caste/class system that prevents those who are otherwise really smart and good people to succeed.

    Its really a sad story for a lot of people here in Fragrant Harbor...

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shadows:
    1. how do you describe your working environment here? Are you satisfied with it?

    Its a Job, no such thing as job satisfaction in my book. I see how the locals are treated in comparison to us expats and it makes me sick. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do to change how the system is setup and is operated here.

    2. how do you think about the life here? Stressful or stress-free?

    Life here is ok, quality of life is terrible for a lot of people. The lack of upward mobility here for a lot of people is not pleasant. There is a large disparity between the have's versus the have not's. A lot of people earn 10K or less here per month, its a tough life for them.

    Personally, for myself its not stressful.

    3. Do you hang out with local people? How often?

    Yes I do, all the time and I hang out with people in China as well.

    4. What do you think of the local people?

    The locals are nice, I feel bad for a majority of them because I think they are being exploited by the rich. I think the locals should be paid more for what they contribute to the over all economy in Hong Kong and the overall environment.

    In the states its possible for someone who works in blue collar to become rich and successful. In Hong Kong there seems to this caste/class system that prevents those who are otherwise really smart and good people to succeed.

    Its really a sad story for a lot of people here in Fragrant Harbor...
    Thank you very much Shadows!

    How do you hang out with locals? i.e Do you go to their home for dinner or do you go to pubs?

    You think that the majority of the people are exploited... do you think that they should be paid more or have more political rights? Or do you think that they work as hard as you do but they are underpaid? If so why there is the difference?

    Well the Fragrant Harbor is no longer fragrant...

  4. #4

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    1. how do you describe your working environment here? Are you satisfied with it?
    Working environment is quite good overall, i.e. reasonable hourly pay. The issue is working hours which are quite extraordinary by any global standard.
    I worked in local, semi-international (i.e. global company with localized environment) and truly international companies. I would never work in a local company anymore. Too much backstabbing, rules, conservative attitudes. No flexibility and openness, which I don't like.
    Overall I like my current job and employer.

    2. how do you think about the life here? Stressful or stress-free?
    stressful overall. people are very very busy and do not seem to mind. it might be slowly changing but overall i believe the government represents the current (!) thinking of the majority of people by NOT creating relaxing zones (e.g. harbourfront cafes, etc.). Of course that is not very forward looking but that's another debate.

    3. Do you hang out with local people? How often?
    i used to hand out with locals only; recently this is shifting towards a very international mix-up of locals, mainland chinese, other asians (pinoys, thai, japanese) and westerners. i meet a local every week once at least

    4. What do you think of the local people?
    while very liberal in business terms, overall i experience local (hong kong) people are very conservative in social terms. lots of traditional values and 'rules' (some good, many not so). it's especially striking in comparison with my mainland (urban) friends who are almost consistently more liberal in their lifestyle. the positive of sticking to the 'rules' is the keeping of the rule of law and the resulting efficiency which is something hk people are very good at.

    ps: am here for 10 years now

    Last edited by cookie09; 19-10-2009 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #5

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    Generally they come to my place for dinner or we go out for dinner and drinks.

    I think the locals should be paid more than what they are being paid. Some of my local friends are in the same line of work as some of my expat colleagues and the locals are paid considerably less. I think the salary should be reflective of your experience and your skills, and not what color/type of passport you hold.

    I think we should try to treat each other fairly and equal when it comes to salary.

    Its a very strange country when people find out you are an Expat or a foreigner, they have different attitude towards you than if you were local or a mainlander.

    For myself when I walk into a shop, they ask me a question rudely in mandarin "What do you want", I reply in English "I am looking for an item." Suddenly they do a 180 and have a completely different attitude/demeanor than when I was supposedly mainland Chinese.

    I dont think its right to treat each in such a way, we are all people, we all have a right not to be treated rudely.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatalRabbit:
    Thank you very much Shadows!

    How do you hang out with locals? i.e Do you go to their home for dinner or do you go to pubs?

    You think that the majority of the people are exploited... do you think that they should be paid more or have more political rights? Or do you think that they work as hard as you do but they are underpaid? If so why there is the difference?

    Well the Fragrant Harbor is no longer fragrant...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cookie09:
    1. how do you describe your working environment here? Are you satisfied with it?
    Working environment is quite good overall, i.e. reasonable hourly pay. The issue is working hours which are quite extraordinary by any global standard.
    I worked in local, semi-international (i.e. global company with localized environment) and truly international companies. I would never work in a local company anymore. Too much backstabbing, rules, conservative attitudes. No flexibility and openness, which I don't like.
    Overall I like my current job and employer.

    2. how do you think about the life here? Stressful or stress-free?
    stressful overall. people are very very busy and do not seem to mind. it might be slowly changing but overall i believe the government represents the current (!) thinking of the majority of people by NOT creating relaxing zones (e.g. harbourfront cafes, etc.). Of course that is not very forward looking but that's another debate.

    3. Do you hang out with local people? How often?
    i used to hand out with locals only; recently this is shifting towards a very international mix-up of locals, mainland chinese, other asians (pinoys, thai, japanese) and westerners. i meet a local every week once at least

    4. What do you think of the local people?
    while very liberal in business terms, overall i experience local (hong kong) people are very conservative in social terms. lots of traditional values and 'rules' (some good, many not so). it's especially striking in comparison with my mainland (urban) friends who are almost consistently more liberal in their lifestyle. the positive of sticking to the 'rules' is the keeping of the rule of law and the resulting efficiency which is something hk people are very good at.

    ps: am here for 10 years now
    Thank you for your answers!!

    It's interesting that you mentioned the creation of relaxing zones... we all know that HK is crowded and life is stressful, places for relaxation or recreation are much needed... in the suggestions for the development of West Kowloon, one mentions that it should be built into a park like the Central park in NYC. This suggestion really reflects what people really want here... however what do you think that stands in the way of creating more places like that?

    During the 10 years of your stay here, are there any changes in Hong Kong that are impressive for you?
    Do you mind sharing what changes you have gone (i.e your personality, view of world etc) through during your stay?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by shadows:
    Generally they come to my place for dinner or we go out for dinner and drinks.

    I think the locals should be paid more than what they are being paid. Some of my local friends are in the same line of work as some of my expat colleagues and the locals are paid considerably less. I think the salary should be reflective of your experience and your skills, and not what color/type of passport you hold.

    I think we should try to treat each other fairly and equal when it comes to salary.

    Its a very strange country when people find out you are an Expat or a foreigner, they have different attitude towards you than if you were local or a mainlander.

    For myself when I walk into a shop, they ask me a question rudely in mandarin "What do you want", I reply in English "I am looking for an item." Suddenly they do a 180 and have a completely different attitude/demeanor than when I was supposedly mainland Chinese.

    I dont think its right to treat each in such a way, we are all people, we all have a right not to be treated rudely.
    It is unfortunately true that discrimination still exists (and kinda prevails) in a city that calls itself 'international'. However I think I can explain why you had such encounters. HK people have a biased idea of mainlanders (the situation is improving though) due to the 'uncivilised behaviours' of the mainlanders they have observed here. Furthermore some people still detest(or fear) what mainlanders have done in the past. I guess when the mainlanders start to pour in and sweep the luxurious goods in the metropolitan shopping malls and 'wash money', HK people will change their attitudes, after all you know how practical they are...

    Have you ever given a further thought on why locals are paid 'considerably less'?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalRabbit:
    It is unfortunately true that discrimination still exists (and kinda prevails) in a city that calls itself 'international'. However I think I can explain why you had such encounters. HK people have a biased idea of mainlanders (the situation is improving though) due to the 'uncivilised behaviours' of the mainlanders they have observed here. Furthermore some people still detest(or fear) what mainlanders have done in the past.
    Er, you are aware that over one third of all the ethnic Chinese residents in Hong Kong were born in the mainland? (source: 2006 by-census)

    And I would guess probably only about a quarter of local Chinese residents had parents who were both born in Hong Kong.

    It is utter hypocrisy.
    Last edited by PDLM; 20-10-2009 at 02:10 AM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalRabbit:
    It's interesting that you mentioned the creation of relaxing zones... we all know that HK is crowded and life is stressful, places for relaxation or recreation are much needed... in the suggestions for the development of West Kowloon, one mentions that it should be built into a park like the Central park in NYC. This suggestion really reflects what people really want here... however what do you think that stands in the way of creating more places like that?
    i personally think that hk people don't really really want such places. i.e. they want it but they don't want to pay for it. nothing is free, so it's the trade offs that matter. in hk when someone says that creating the hk central market relaxing zone would cost HKD 5bn (hypothetical number) in lost revenue, most hk people would still prefer the government to get the revenue and lower the taxes rather than creating the relaxing zone.
    now for central market the government seems to go ahead to ceate the zone, but i think that's only because the political fallout and lost revenue is not that big.
    for areas like the central reclamation and the west kowloon i am pretty sure that vested interests are still planning a full construction of buildings as they always do (see the green zone of kai tak and what will happen to it...). when these interests cannot get what they want, they simply block any other development including relaxing zones until they get their way which is why the west kowloon area is still barren and unusable land in a prime location. as the hk government does not carry a lot of ligitimacy from the wider hk public (missing univsersal suffrage), they cannot push through such relaxing zones against these vested interests.
    the only way the hk public can influece this decision making is through street protests as elections in a executive led government that is unelected are a rather meaningless way to voice protest. however, apart from the fact that i do not think that hk people are generally willing to protest against government authority, street protests will not get big enough to influence government decision making if most of the hk people are not willing to make the money-for-relaxation trade off.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatalRabbit:
    During the 10 years of your stay here, are there any changes in Hong Kong that are impressive for you?
    Do you mind sharing what changes you have gone (i.e your personality, view of world etc) through during your stay?
    i think overall hk has not changed too much. i did notice that young hk people have taken on board some of the more liberal thinking. but at the same time i see many of them reverting to old practices as soon as it matters (i.e. once they get into business life, relationships, politics, etc).
    also i believe hk has opened considerably towards the mainland (mentally) which is a good thing in the long run. that has still a long way to go and hk people need to realize a) that most of them are in fact emigrated mainlanders and b) that there is real superiority in some of the mainland thinking (not all but some, which needs to be combined with some of the hk strengths).

    the things that has not changed is the sense of insecurity and lack of vision generally visible in hk. i believe it's mostly this insecurity towards the future and the mainland which makes hk people not accepting their own past and their future with the mainland. hk seems utterly confused about its strengths and weaknesses and how it should carve out a niche for itself in the future context of china and asia. that goes hand in hand with a complete lack of vision from hk government leaders. the latest policy address is just another example of this.
    thee's only two ways out of this in my mind: either hk accepts a beijing appointed leader as the best beijing cadres tend to be allocated to the top cities/provinces in the mainland and are certainly superior to the hk leaders (imho). or hk implements universal suffrage with a real competition of ideas among political parties/people vying for leadership of hk to flush out the best ideas and get legitimacy from the hk public to implement these ideas.

    would like to avoid your last question as this forum is not exactly anonymous and answering that would get quite personal

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    Er, you are aware that over one third of all the ethnic Chinese residents in Hong Kong were born in the mainland? (source: 2006 by-census)

    And I would guess probably only about a quarter of local Chinese residents had parents who were both born in Hong Kong.

    It is utter hypocrisy.
    First I apologized here that I mistakenly used the word 'Hong Kong local' to address all the people here. I meant the ethnic Chinese people here.

    Yes, I am very much aware that there used to be a rapid growth in population of ethnic Chinese in the past in HK, from the 1.8 million in 1947 to 2.2 million in 1951 to the estimated 3 million in 1960 and to 4 million in 1971, resulted from that people in mainland China fled home to come here. I am also aware that how Hong Kong is a city of immigrants as it was.

    So what? Does that make the situation mentioned before any better? The people fled mainland because of distrust of the new government, the 'Cultural Revolution' and the famine etc. They came here with the hope that things would be better, at least they would no longer be hungry. Part of their fears rooted in the past and this is one of the reasons that keep them suspicious (and hostile) about anything from mainland China.
    There was a very liberal development in the past (esp in the 1970s) and it shaped what Hong Kong it is today. Surely the ethnic Chinese people here think that they are 'superior' than those in mainland, people here are civilized, well-mannered, democratic etc, people in mainland seem to them like barbarians.

    I have seen many people here who came from mainland. They started to adapt to the ' Hong Kong mode' after staying here for 4 or 5 years and start to be suspicious and insecure like the rest of Chinese here. I'm not sure whether you have noticed it, Chinese can be unbelievably racist and discriminative, wherever they are from. (of course people would argue that those are just 'innocent stereotypes)

    The traditional thought that 'one has to be born Chinese to be Chinese' is still deep-rooted, people usually don't like others who are different from them. My friends (of ethnic Indian, Thai, Pakistani) who were born and raised here have complained that they still faced discrimination but they took it for granted most of the time. And you also see how many Cantonese words ('nicknames') there are for 'foreigners' and people from mainland.

    I said that the situation is changing, partly because China now is much more open than it used to be and the strong economic growth. When people here have more chances to know about mainland (and its changes) they do not feel annoyed as they did. The handover also increased the acceptance and identification of being Chinese for the ethnic Chinese here. Tourism is one of the '4 key industries' here so HK depends a lot on mainland people.

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