I actually don't see that as being hard. There are various things "policed" in HK and they just 'are'. I think if you put up signs and perhaps fine a few people for breaking the rules (just like any other 'policing' activity!) then it catches on eventually. Actually I think if the whole estate were fined (and then passed onto householders) for not complying, then 'people pressure' would get exerted on anyone breaking the rules! For example, in the GC residences people all line up for the bus in really neat orderly queues. Why do they do that? Sometimes the last one to arrive misses the bus and has to go out and catch a public bus because there is not room, so there is no incentive not to push or queue jump. But they don't. It just "is" done this way. If people try and queue jump, others in the queue tell them off ... this is what I mean, just an example, but you get my drift.....
I am sure many on this board have read Tripping Point by Malcolm Gladwell and can see MovingIn's point.
If the law is enforced against relatively minor infractions, then that in and of itself can act as a deterrent against something a notch more serious. The case study in the book highlighted just how effective something as simple as repairing broken windows in abandoned buildings on a neighbourhood street resulted in fewer drug dealers in the area as well as fewer incidents of crime - or something along those lines, sorry my memory is sketchy on exactly what was achieved, but it was significant.
To relate this to MovingIn's post, if you do not tell off the fellow who tries to cut in line ahead of you, this will further embolden him/her to do it again and maybe take it up a notch the next time. The principle of enforcing a law for the smallest infractions can be applied to waste disposal by households too.
Thanks shakermaker.
I think the real problem here is not enforcement, it's getting legco to decide to do it in the first place. Just look at the light bulb debate. I mean - a parliamentary DEBATE about it? In most other countries, the utility just goes off and does it (recognises that energy efficiency is cheaper than building new power stations, realises that giving people an incentive to install efficient light bulbs is therefore cost effective and not just 'giving money away for free' and off they go). I used several of these vouchers in NZ, for example, and filled the house with efficient light bulbs. Our electricity bills went down quite significantly. Here, the electricity regulatory regime (ha ha) is not able to cope with this and so you end up with debates in Legco. Deep sighs.
So coming back to rubbish .. all the estate owners will say something like "oh no it will cost us money to police this so it's bad" or "we will need extra space for recycling bins" or some other pathetic comment, and everyone will get all worried and off they go .... instead we get a darn bag levy which achieves pretty much nothing.
Deep sighs.
live here a while longer and you'll see that 'orderly lining up' and waiting patiently forever for the most trivial thing seems to be inbread within the HK psyche...as is avoiding confrontation (which would certainly rule out locals queue jumping)...but surreptitious dumping of unauthorized garbage is almost a given (just step outside the pristine confines of GC Residences and into some of the local villages and you'll see illegal dumping with little difficulty)
it's not abig leap from that village mentality to the same situation in a highrise block...
don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen, I just don't see it happening in my lifetime, within the current generations of locals...
Last edited by timklip; 29-10-2009 at 04:26 PM.
You could be right - although I note that it's (queuing) is certainly not a Chinese phenomenon - does not happen on the mainland! So at some point in the past, queuing was instilled in the population somehow (by the brits, I guess!) and now is considered normal. That's exactly my point - it's not impossible - you just have to try and find out how to do that with rubbish rules (and probably a few other things like smoking too but for another thread!).
My "fine the whole estate" was NOT then to let management sort it out - it was to pass the fine onto each individual unit so that everyone saw the "pain" of somebody not complying and thus make it everybody's responsibility. Exactly the same as what teacher's use in class sometimes - if one person mucks around, everybody loses something so that "peer pressure" can be brought to bear on the trouble makers. Given that illegal dumping is so prevalent (yes, I know - I do hike around NT and I see it in villages all the time, and I actually find it pretty incomprehensible but that's another matter) then you need everyone to be trying to enforce the new law.... Anyway - it was one idea - there are surely others.
How do you know it achieves pretty much nothing ?? I can see plenty of local people bringing their bag in supermarket.
What i would like to see know is that instead of selling you a 0.50 crappy bag they do like in France and sell you a non-woven bag for 10 hkd people will thinks twice before buying one !
The plstic bag levy was a fantastic success in that it showed how simple change in a law can modify the behaviour of millions of people with minimal fuss.
Perhaps a simple law requiring all buildings with more than 10 or so flats to have a conveniently located waste streamed recycling facility. The right way must become the most convenient way.
Unfortunately the supermarkets were pushing for the bag levy as it reduced their operating costs while enforcing recycling points in every block of flats would cost developers money so...
The 'assertion' was broadcasted on nowTV news.