BA strike over Xmas - who's affected?

[PDLM]

As someone who has two defined benefits pensions to look forward to if I make it that far I'm bound to disagree. The company's commitments to the pension scheme are no different from any other commitments - you make a contract you stick to it. If you start shafting your past employees that's hardly going to endear you to the current ones is it?

[Dreadnought]

Right, so the answer is to stick it to the current employees, is that what you are implying?
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[PDLM]

The current employees at least have the ability to look for new jobs if they do not like the new contracts being offered. The pensioners generally don't have that option.

[Boris]

The pensions are what is REALLY killing BA.
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Its the pension FUND that has helped them get through all the downturn thus far.

Looking at the way you phrase various other points I don't think you understand how pension funds work. If I ( I do actually ) have a pension that paid me good money when I retired its because of the good management of the fund managers to keep that pot of gold overflowing.So..... Whoppee.

True there are rules that need to be implemented in some circumstances that allow companies to mine this resource without culpability to fund directors having conflicting priorities with the company but that is not the case here. They are in a hole in the fund but that will not effect the payouts and why shouldn't people have a decent pension that they have paid into and been managed well?

As for you saying about what people ( like captains ) get when retired, that just smacks of envy. My mate is a first officer with CP. Works hard and has to well all the time and be in his industry for more that 20 years ( from student ) to have just a chance to reach captain. Considering his responsibilities, continual need to re qualify and maintain his high standards, then I say he is more than entitled to a good pension.

As for the point of the thread.. the unions tried to pull a fast one and have been found out, but they are talking so hopefully level heads will rule. Otherwise - yes - BA need to pull a Ronald Reagan -- they should have applicants lining up for miles.

[Dreadnought]

The retired pilots do not NEED another option. That is the point I have been making. Their past remuneration affords them the luxury of being able to manage for YEARS with reduced or frozen pension pay-outs (not imposed upon them, but mutually agreed upon). This would be on top of Government pension.

Cabin Crew do not have that luxury. That you think you can equate their circumstances is ludicrous.

You needn't look too far to realise that BA are virtually up to their neck in human faeces. In 2006 their reported pension deficit amounted to £1.4bn. Today that figure stands at £3.7bn.

Existing staff have to cut their throats to be able to continue supporting past employees? I say screw past employees. They contribute ZERO value to the airline. Doing so is NOT worth the impact on the company's existing workforce. It is NOT worth the impact on the traveling public.

And it certainly isn't worth sinking the ship.

[PDLM]

So you won't be contributing to any pension plans if you can possibly help it then shakermaker? Or are you just planning to die before you get old?

[Dreadnought]

Looking at the way you phrase various other points I don't think you understand how pension funds work.

I don't fully understand, I concede. There is too much background to get into for the moment. My problem, however, lies with the liability that the company is unable the manage because of the ever-widening pension fund which, for all intents and purposes, is untouchable. For the record, I have not stated that the pension programme should be outright terminated à la US Airways, so don't be putting words in my mouth.

As for you saying about what people ( like captains ) get when retired, that just smacks of envy. My mate is a first officer with CP. Works hard and has to well all the time and be in his industry for more that 20 years ( from student ) to have just a chance to reach captain. Considering his responsibilities, continual need to re qualify and maintain his high standards, then I say he is more than entitled to a good pension.

Yeah, I don't need YOU to tell me that pilots have earned their pension, although none of what you state has anything to do with what warrants a suitable pension fund. Now what you perceive as envy is really a sense of disgust over the fact that one group of employees can get away with fat pay-outs, well-past their use-by date, whereas another group that is not nearly as well-compensated in the first place has to sacrifice an arm and a leg to help save the company from the brink of collapse. That, my friend, makes no business sense and BA is a business, not a privatised old-age welfare organisation.

As for the point of the thread.. the unions tried to pull a fast one and have been found out, but they are talking so hopefully level heads will rule. Otherwise - yes - BA need to pull a Ronald Reagan -- they should have applicants lining up for miles.

No. No one tried to pull a fast one. They could just as easily hold another ballot and pull it off legally. We're talking about an 80% turn-out, out of which 92% voted to strike. Previous attempts at reaching out to management fell on deaf ears so they did what they had to in order to be heard. Hopefully, this time, management will listen.

Funny, neither you nor PDLM are holding BA's management accountable for this mess. Go back to your CX pilot friend and ask him where he thinks the responsibility lies.

So you won't be contributing to any pension plans if you can possibly help it then shakermaker? Or are you just planning to die before you get old?

Let me repeat myself - I do not feel that the pension programme should be terminated, so once again don't put words in my mouth. If you were paid above industry-average for your profession, you wouldn't NEED a pension plan to get by and can comfortably survive temporarily without one.