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Condoleeza Rice coming to Hong Kong!

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    if you are talking about Japan in World War 2 you are very clearly wrong.
    Of course I am only talking about the Iraqi war, not about any other war that ever happened on planet earth.

    And Tony Blair is the war criminal in chief, up there with G.W. Bush.

    And Football, do you think that only Japanese and Germans should be executed for war crimes? US and British politicians and soldiers not?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Pinkelin:
    Of course I am only talking about the Iraqi war, not about any other war that ever happened on planet earth.

    And Tony Blair is the war criminal in chief, up there with G.W. Bush.

    And Football, do you think that only Japanese and Germans should be executed for war crimes? US and British politicians and soldiers not?
    War criminals (real ones, not pretend ones) should be tried. Executed, no but the latter is my personal preference. I am not in favor of state murders in the name of justice.

    While I don't agree with the Iraq war and Bush and Blair's ridiculous decisions to invade Iraq, that doesn't make them war criminals. The USA doesn't and won't subscribe to the world criminal court as they won't let their people be subject to that jurisdiction.

    The war in Iraq wasn't legal by UN standards but claiming everyone is a war criminal is kind of odd and Rice here is no exception. It is a bit of a debate as to whether the US national interests needed protecting due to their claim of WMD which turned out to be bogus.

    In fact why your post is so confusing there has never been any Japanese fighting troops in Iraq so it is unclear what you are on about. All I can find is that Japan sent "about 550 non-combat troops on a reconstruction mission to the southern Iraqi town of Samawa. That mission ended last July (2006) but some 200 air force personnel remain in Kuwait to transport supplies to the U.S.-led coalition."

    By your twisted logic if the above is true, then Japan's leaders are war criminals too so your precious Japan is no different than a guy who drives the getaway car from a bank robbery or the guy who gives them the guns.

    Next time maybe make your post a bit clearer as if there is one irritant in China/HK with Japan it is their horrific treatment of citizens and their rape, torture and killing including right here in a HK hospital.

    If you truly believe in freedom and democracy trying to organize a 'welcoming' for Rice is equally silly as it implies some sort of attempt to protest or disrupt. You might actually want to listen and learn as even those we disagree have a story to tell and understanding what they did and why is useful whether we change our minds or not.
    Last edited by Football16; 11-03-2010 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #23

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    >> claiming everyone is a war criminal is kind of odd.

    Odd is a polite word.


  4. #24

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    To be fair to Pink John, he did get a topic going and that was Ms. Rice is to be at CUHK on March 19th. Anyone hear anything more? There are times when we all post in haste and it can be misconstrued and perhaps I did this here.

    Pink John has a point about the Iraq War and while I'd not call all of them war criminals, the legitimacy of that war was questionable and I don't mean just that they found no WMD. Hindsight wasn't needed here. I never believed the Iraqis to be that far ahead and the UN inspectors were finding nothing as they went on. It was as if the US and the UK knew they'd find nothing so had to act first to justify the take out of Saddam.

    My understanding is that to be deemed a war criminal you'd have to have ordered something heinous that violates the Geneva Convention. Not sure if Rice is close enough to the seat of power to meet any criteria of a war criminal.

    The US and Britain did not heed the UN Security Council who passed a resolution demanding Iraq cease and desist and submit to inspections and took it on their own to make a preemptive strike arguing that Iraq was a threat. While a nation can do this if they are directly threatened neither the US or the UK could really claim they met this criteria. The facts suggest that the USA aided by their lap dog, Tony Blair, didn't believe the Sec Council would act so did it on their own.

    I would like to hear Condileeza Rice although there is no way she'll deviate from the party line.


  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    While I don't agree with the Iraq war and Bush and Blair's ridiculous decisions to invade Iraq, that doesn't make them war criminals. The USA doesn't and won't subscribe to the world criminal court as they won't let their people be subject to that jurisdiction.
    I really don't understand what you mean here. I hope you don't mean that since the US didn't subscribe to the International Criminal Court it follows that American people cannot be war criminals! If that was the case than there couldn't have been war criminals before the Court was established, in 2002.
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    The war in Iraq wasn't legal by UN standards but claiming everyone is a war criminal is kind of odd and Rice here is no exception.
    Not everybody, only those who decided to invade Iraq. Rice was one of those who went around the world justifying the invasion, and one of those who could have stopped it, if she had stood up and said that the US government's arguments and justifications were made up and completely bogus. She would have lost her job but hundreds of thousands of innocent people would not have died. Instead, she went around saying that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and the US had proof of this, and various other lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    It is a bit of a debate as to whether the US national interests needed protecting due to their claim of WMD which turned out to be bogus.
    So you mean that if the German national interests needed protecting by invading Poland, Germany had the right to invade Poland? And what about Iraqi national interests that needed protecting by invading Kuwait which was stealing Iraqi oil? If you start with this argument, than any country can invade any other country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    In fact why your post is so confusing there has never been any Japanese fighting troops in Iraq so it is unclear what you are on about. All I can find is that Japan sent "about 550 non-combat troops on a reconstruction mission to the southern Iraqi town of Samawa. That mission ended last July (2006) but some 200 air force personnel remain in Kuwait to transport supplies to the U.S.-led coalition."

    By your twisted logic if the above is true, then Japan's leaders are war criminals too so your precious Japan is no different than a guy who drives the getaway car from a bank robbery or the guy who gives them the guns.
    I really don't see where I display "twisted logic". Can you quote my passage(s).

    And where did I say that Japan is "my precious"? I thought that this thread is about Condoleeza Rice and Iraq, and not Japanese colonialism in China. So why do you feel compelled to keep raising the issue? Do you think that the horrific crimes of the Japanese in China forgive somehow the horrific crimes of the US in Iraq?
    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Next time maybe make your post a bit clearer as if there is one irritant in China/HK with Japan it is their horrific treatment of citizens and their rape, torture and killing including right here in a HK hospital.

    If you truly believe in freedom and democracy trying to organize a 'welcoming' for Rice is equally silly as it implies some sort of attempt to protest or disrupt. You might actually want to listen and learn as even those we disagree have a story to tell and understanding what they did and why is useful whether we change our minds or not.
    So I guess in your next holiday are you going to go to Japan and listen and learn from those who defend the Japanese invasion of China?

  6. #26

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    F.A.O. John Pinkelin:

    All in all, you make it seem like removing Saddam was a bad thing for Iraq and her neighbours. Had he simply died in office, his sons would have taken over (infinitely worse), because that is just how things work in that part of the world.

    Your line of thinking would further extend to discount the good that came in removing ol' Slobodan, and in the abolishment of Sharia Law in Afghanistan.


  7. #27

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    again...can we have more info: when / where exactly is she coming. Invitation speech only or open to all?


  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought:
    All in all, you make it seem like removing Saddam was a bad thing for Iraq and her neighbours. Had he simply died in office, his sons would have taken over (infinitely worse), because that is just how things work in that part of the world.
    Can you quote any passage where I said whether removing him was a bad thing, or a good thing? This thread is about the war crimes committed by the US in Iraq, and the responsibility of Condoleeza Rice.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Pinkelin:
    Can you quote any passage where I said whether removing him was a bad thing, or a good thing?
    The language you use seems to suggest that going in was a bad idea. I would have agreed with you about 7 years ago.

    Anyhow...

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Pinkelin:
    Instead, she went around saying that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and the US had proof of this, and various other lies.
    Be that as it may, no WMDs found that is, what evidence do you have which suggests that the use of chemical weapons on Kurdish communities did not happen under Saddam's leadership?

  10. #30

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    again...can we have more info: when / where exactly is she coming. Invitation speech only or open to all?