Return Home Permit question - HKID, US citizen, China born

myhamster · 09-07-2010, 06:01 AM

I've tried my best to answer my own question from previous posts, so if this sounds like a repost, please excuse me.

My facts:
1. I'm a US citizen, living in the US, US passport.
2. I was born in China. Mom was Chinese, dad was hong kong resident.
3. Lived in Hong Kong for a year before moving to the US.
4. Parents now living in China again (they moved back once us kids were in college). Mom and dad both have HKID and return home permits.

Last year, I went to visit them in China (using multi-entry China visa on US passport). While there, I went to Hong Kong and applied for HK Permanent ID and was granted, with right to abode.

Later this year, I plan on going back to Hong Kong to get my permanent HKID smart card. They would give me a temporary HKID. I was hoping to then apply for a "Return Home Pass" / "China Travel Permit" / "Return Village Pass"...

But from this post, it seems some people think that a HKSAR passport is required in order to obtain a HRP (home return pass), because HKID's are not enough to prove Chinese citizenship?

http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/thread80401-3.html

Is this still the situation? I have a Chinese birth certificate, and have not renounced my Chinese citizenship with HKSAR immigration. Would my HKID and birth certificate be enough to gain approval for Return Home Permit?

I'm going to HK to get my ID and permit, but my main goal is to visit my parents in China. I think my best course of action is to apply for a China visa in the US for this trip. I don't want to risk going to Hong Kong without a China visa and wasting a lot of time waiting for a China visa approval there.

By the way, are China visa's as easy to get in Hong Kong as they used to be? I've had cousins in the same situation who didn't bother to get China visas - they go to hong kong and apply for the visa there (on US passports).

Long post - but people are probably used to it. Thanks for reading.

Hairball · 09-07-2010, 06:09 AM

Section 3, Part 2 here should explain what you need, if you were born in the mainland:
[url=http://www.ctshk.com/zhengjian/gangao.htm]

The last part says: "如持有外國護照抵港的，還須提交有的香港特區護照或其他中國國籍證明文件。 "

If you arrived in HK with a foreign passport, you will need to provide a HKSAR passport or other proof of Chinese citizenship.

My Chinese sucks though, maybe ask someone to read and translate the document for you. There are a lot of other details. And this application is available only in Chinese.

Visa rules can often change with a whim in HK, but even as a visitor there you probably will be able to get at least a single or double visa to visit the mainland. But if they think you are a Chinese citizen, there may be a chance they would refuse a visa.

myhamster · 09-07-2010, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Hairball:

If you arrived in HK with a foreign passport, you will need to provide a HKSAR passport or other proof of Chinese citizenship.

But if they think you are a Chinese citizen, there may be a chance they would refuse a visa.

Now I see why so many people on this forum thinks that HKSAR passport is required for a Return Home Permit. The passport is NOT required for a return home permit - proof of Chinese citizenship is.

Goal:
Prove Chinese citizenship

Means of Achieving Goal:
1. HKSAR passport
2. Chinese birth certificate ??
3. ?? ??

For many people, HKSAR passport might be the easiest way of proving Chinese citizenship, but perhaps a Chinese birth certificate would work too. Since I was born in China, that might be the way for me. I have my birth certificate. And I haven't voluntarily revoked my Chinese citizenship.

Your second point about China refusing visa's...I've applied for VISA's on my US passport a few times before. They've always been granted. But I also haven't applied for the Return Home Permit yet. It's possible that once your name is added to a Return Home Permit database, they check that database for subsequent visa applications.

Has anyone who has a Return Home Permit tried applying for a China visa??

It does kind of make sense - China doesn't recognize dual citizenship. If you get a return home permit, they won't allow you to enter China on a visa, since granting a visa is a recognition of your rights as a foreign citizen and to foreign embassy protection.

Hairball · 09-07-2010, 08:24 AM

It's just a possibility they might have a record of you being on the Chinese citizen register. I have a friend that had a home return permit at one point and tried to get a Chinese visa and was refused. Just depends on your luck perhaps.

Good luck though. If I was eligible for a HRP I think I'd try to get it too!

myhamster · 09-07-2010, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Hairball:

I have a friend that had a home return permit at one point and tried to get a Chinese visa and was refused

Oh, that's interesting. So it seems applying for Return Home Permit really has real implications on your China visa eligibility. You may never be able to enter China with embassy protections. Furthermore, if you're ever denied a visa, you have to declare the fact for any future visa applications, don't you?

A lot of people don't think the Home Return Pass is a big deal, but for those of us with close family in China, we might need to get up and go with little notice due to family emergencies. The HRP makes that possible.

I would've liked to be able to pick the visa route or the HRP route. HRP for emergencies, visa for typical tourist visits. But if that's not possible...then dang.

Maybe the best route for me is to apply for HRP anyways. Maybe if I really need the US embassy protection in the future while in China, I could voluntarily revoke my Chinese citizenship? I wonder if you apply to revoke your Chinese citizenship, does that hurt your future visa applications?

If China has a problem with granting Chinese citizens visas - why don't they ask that question outright on the China visa application?...politics?

Hairball · 09-07-2010, 08:45 AM

Of course, using that permit means you are going in as a Chinese citizen, so you won't get the diplomatic protection.

I doubt you can just apply all of a sudden to renounce your citizenship if you were arrested in China. But if you do it before you go, and then get a visa to visit, it should be fine. Pulling a fast one won't work

They probably don't ask because Chinese citizens don't need visas to visit China. HK and Macau people are the interesting exceptions that are allowed the dual citizenship, the other billion Chinese people have to pick a citizenship if they move abroad.

Hairball · 09-07-2010, 08:46 AM

If you're eligible for the HRP, it's for 10 years anyway. You wouldn't need a visa. Unless you have serious concerns about needing help from the US government.

myhamster · 09-07-2010, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hairball:

HK and Macau people are the interesting exceptions that are allowed the dual citizenship, the other billion Chinese people have to pick a citizenship if they move abroad.

But doesn't the same problem exist for HK and Macau people? If they enter China, don't they have to use a visa on a passport? So what ever passport they use is what gives them diplomatic protection - unless they they use a HRP, then they're fair game.

Hairball · 09-07-2010, 09:50 AM

Chinese citizens from HK and Macau have to use the HRP to enter mainland China. Unless they somehow had a foreign citizenship and were able to get a Chinese visa issued.

HKSAR and MSAR passports are passports of the People's Republic of China. However those cannot be used to enter the mainland, for some reason they require you to get the home return permit instead. But even if you could use those passports, you are entering your own country and wouldn't get diplomatic protection in the first place.