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  1. #1

    refused visa

    Hi I need some input from you guys here.

    I applied to immigration on behalf of one of my relative to come to HK on a tourist visa. Their family asked me to do all the documentation, e.t.c, since they are not literate. The applicant's dad runs a shop and has reasonable income, so he was the sponsor.

    The applicant has reasonable and stable income in his home country and is educated and not yet married. The purpose of his visit was to spend sometime with his family and parents as he seldom goes abroad. The person has been to HK back in 2000 or 2001, And stayed here about a month and left before expiry of his visa.

    Now immigration refused his visa. I feel so embarrassed and let down in front of my relatives, since my relatives depended on me and are shocked. Of course they don't blame me, but they want to know why immigration would refuse his visa.

    Since majority of their family is here, so this sets a dangerous precedent for them, as to see him, all of them will have to travel back to our home country, instead of just one person visiting them in HK.

    I am thinking of writing to immigration to give some reason on why this person's visa was refused? should I bother, cos I don't believe they would bother to tell me the reason? and I also don't want to fully destroy his chances of applying for a tourist or other kind of visa in the future?

    And after how long can I apply again for him to come on a tourist visa? or is he permanently banned from HK without any reason given?

    One thing I just remember and forgot to mention is that their family had an immigration case against the government during 2000-2003. One of their family member (a son) who was not allowed to stay in HK on a dependent person (the father) cos he himself (the father) was a dependent on another person (his other son). so before the case went to court hearing, immigration took back their objection and let the 2nd son stay in HK as a dependent on his father, who had spent about 4 years in HK, but was not yet a PR.

    My personal feeling is that cos of that court case, immigration is still pissed with this family and do not wish to entertain their 3rd son's simple request of visiting the rest of his family? could that case have affected their future chances of immigration as i suspect?

    Last edited by blimpboss; 18-10-2010 at 12:53 PM.

  2. #2

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    Clearly immigration is of the view that the last thing HK needs is more illiterate immigrants. It seems strange to me that you claim the son is both "educated" and "illiterate". This is some strange new usage of the word "educated" that I was not previously aware of.

    Your family has already threatened a court case against immigration to get them to issue a visa against the rules (you cannot be a dependant of a dependant according to the rules) and presumably they think that you will blackmail them again with the threat of bad publicity if they let the other son in and then refuse to grant him a visa allowing him to stay.

    The reason for refusing the visa was almost certainly that they had reasonable doubts about his intention to leave the country again. I have to say that from what you have told us I would have the same doubts.


  3. #3

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    You should ask them for a reason. Would also help to know what nationality the guy is.... not sure if there are organisations which support this community, who might have access to legal and administrative resources to help.

    I'd request an appointment and visit them to try and work things out.


  4. #4

    I just wonder:
    a) What's the home country / passport he hold?
    b) Why not the applicant apply the visa directly from his home country? He is educated, not literate c) If he has a reasonable & stable income, why still need his Dad acts as a sponsorship?


  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    It seems strange to me that you claim the son is both "educated" and "illiterate". This is some strange new usage of the word "educated" that I was not previously aware of.
    This could easily imply "educated in his home tongue" and "unable to write English or Chinese".

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by hummingbirds:
    I just wonder:
    a) What's the home country / passport he hold?
    b) Why not the applicant apply the visa directly from his home country? He is educated, not literate c) If he has a reasonable & stable income, why still need his Dad acts as a sponsorship?
    a) My guess would be Nepal.
    b) Good question, although ImmD does seem to encourage direct applications.
    c) A people who require a tourist visa (and not travelling as part of a tour group) also require (or at least are strongly recommended to have) a sponsor who is resident in Hong Kong

  7. #7

    Excuse me for writing this, Sir, PDLM as I was reading your comments to other people and you are very helpful to many posters. But...... I am not sure who is more illiterate here. Kindly read my post again. He IS literate, his family living in Hong Kong are NOT literate.

    That's why they asked me for my help. So now perhaps as you know this, do you think the only reason he got refused was due to their previous case against the immg? this time please kindly don't use your "Powerfully Dynamic Legendary Mind" PDLM and kindly use your calm mind, . juz kidding.

    About threatening immigration (past / future) i won't defend them, but i asked them and they seriously don't even know how that happened and even what happened. they are illiterate as I said, they told me that everything was done by an agent, who asked them for 25,000 upfront, and yet it was them who were doing most of the working and preparation of documentation in that case, all the agent did was sue the government on their behalf and applied for legal aid.

    they had no idea what hit them, till much much later. but surely they were finally glad to have their 2nd son staying with them in HK. I guess the agent knew how to do those two things, cos according to them, immigration officers were literally barking at them saying, "why is your son still here, send him back straight away, his visa is expired, we don't want him here". so i would not blame them for resorting to such desperate measures, having experience such abuse in the immigration center. so knowingly or unknowingly, due to the attitude they saw from the officers, perhaps they thought going back to the immigration and trying to make things work out through begging would not have helped, and went with agent's suggestion of suing the govt.

    Besides i think you are quite experienced PDLM, dependent on another dependent is not illegal or was only recently disallowed during that time (late 1990's) when they applied. So please feel free to check with immigration that it is not ILLEGAL for a dependent to have another dependent, this facility was canceled and is even now on a case by case basis as it is strongly discouraged. Still I am not 100% so I will gladly stand corrected, as I am assuming you know better.

    To other posters, thanks for your replies, he is holding pakistani passport. he can't apply for visa by himself, it has to be done through relative/sponsor here, that's the case for many poor countries now I think. sponsor does not necessarily have to be of sound financial standing in this case. Immg did not even ask me to submit his father's bank / statements. He himself has enough to support his trip and spend some on shopping.


  8. #8

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    From The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department

    II. Eligibility Criteria

    3. For a sponsor who is a Hong Kong permanent resident or a resident who is not subject to a limit of stay (i.e. a resident with the right to land or on unconditional stay), the following dependants may apply to join him/her for residence in the HKSAR:

    1. his/her spouse;
    2. his/her unmarried dependent child under the age of 18; and
    3. his/her parent aged 60 or above.

    4. For a sponsor who has been admitted into the HKSAR to take up employment (as a professional, for investment to establish/join in business, or for training) or studies (in a full-time undergraduate or post-graduate programme in a local degree-awarding institution), or who is permitted to remain in the HKSAR as an entrant under the Capital Investment Entrant Scheme or the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme, the following dependants may apply to join him/her for residence in the HKSAR:

    1. his/her spouse; and
    2. his/her unmarried dependent child under the age of 18.

    5. An application for admission of a dependant may be favourably considered if:

    1. there is reasonable proof of a genuine relationship between the applicant and the sponsor;
    2. there is no known record to the detriment of the applicant; and
    3. the sponsor is able to support the dependant's living at a standard well above the subsistence level and provide him/her with suitable accommodation in the HKSAR.
    There is no provision for people on Dependant Visas to sponsor other people for Dependant Visas. I don't recall that situation as having changed, at least in the last 7 or 8 years, and I was not here prior to 1999, so I have no idea if the rules were different then (and particularly in British times).

    I see nothing in the FAQ here (see Q2) that makes any special case for Pakistanis (or any other nationality) not being able to apply directly. It seems to me that direct application is the method preferred by ImmD.

    It is the financial status of the applicant not the sponsor which is relevant:
    II. Eligibility Criteria

    3. An application for a visa/entry permit to enter the HKSAR for a visit or transit may be favourably considered if:

    1. the applicant's bona fides are not in doubt;
    2. the applicant has adequate funds to cover the duration of his/her stay without working; and
    3. where the application is for a transit visa/entry permit, he/she holds an onward ticket to the place of his/her destination unless the destination is the Mainland of China or Macao.
    However, ImmD also says:
    Sponsor in Hong Kong

    5. The nomination of a local sponsor will assist the Immigration Department in processing the application. A local sponsor can either be a company or an individual. If the local sponsor is an individual, he/she should be:

    1. of the age of 18 or above;
    2. a bona fide Hong Kong resident; and
    3. acquainted with the applicant.
    (Above two quotes are from The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department)

  9. #9

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    It is daft to suggest that anyone cannot apply directly ... how on earth would someone with no friends or relatives apply for a tourist visa if this were the case? It sounds, frankly, like he would have been better off applying for a pure tourist visa from his home country off his own bat and not even referring to relatives here in HK - just come for a holiday!


  10. #10

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    It could be that ImmD does not believe your relative is bona fide visitor and that he may seek to remain in Hong Kong once he arrives, as all of his family is already here. This is reason enough for ImmD to refuse a visa.


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