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Acquiring HK ID card for my baby

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  1. #11

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    According to her other post, both siblings were born HK, so they were HK Chinese citizens as their parents were also Chinese citizens.

    I think your brother needs to get some serious advice, he doesn't sound like he knows how to handle his matters in HK and China.

    Based on what you said in the other post, he probably needs to do a VEPIC, and that requires the person to be physically in HK on the application, so he should go to HK again to apply it, it should be trivial if he was a Chinese citizen born in HK.

    His daughter is essentially a mainlander, and will need a one way permit to settle in HK (based on what is described should be a HK permanent resident with ROA). Or a two way permit to visit. I am not sure how the US passport will come to play as Chinese citizens are not normally allowed dual citizenship (with exceptions for HK/Macau, though I guess with a HK parent she can considered a HK resident)

    Even though your brother is also American, he is exactly the same as all the other HK men who have a mainland spouse, expect lots of waiting.


  2. #12

    clarification

    @Emx--
    No, no no no. Brother was HK-born. His child, my niece, is mainland born. When i went on a tour yrs ago I heard of many children w/ parents who had HKPIDs were able to get one. Anyway, i think i got the answer. My bro qualifies but my niece won't. I guess rules keep changing. I guess she woudlnt' really need one. Having a 10-yr HRP would be nice for my bro so he doesn't have to renew evey so often. But other than that, really not much use.

    @Hairball--thanks for your post. Well, he did go to the American Consulate when my niece was 6 months old to get her US passport and they even asked him why he waited so long to get her passport, so obviously it is not an issue.

    I called a family friend last nite in HK. She told me the same thing about my niece not being able to get a HKID. My brother shd have no problem at all. The HK immigration officiers who wrote me told me to just try to have him directly apply the ROP1, not needing the VEPIC, which is what I used 10 yrs ago as well. Yes, he'll be meeting me in HK specifically to do this this month. The HK-resident family friend told me that unless my brother moves to HK and has a full time job in HK, that my niece would not be entitled to a HKID. She also told me that they would issue her some temp. one but after a full 7 yrs they could change that. However, hasn't my brother already filfilled the rule by birth and also he didnt leave HK til he was 7, meaning he's already fulfilled the 7 yr requirement? So b/c my brother has no intentions to work in HK, nor do i think he could get a job there, i guess we'll forget about a HKID card for her. Family friend also keeps claiming that MY HKPID card is NOT permanent although it flatly says on the card "permanant" so i'm not sure what she's talking about. She tells me that if i ever re-locate to settle in HK they'd trade a diff one for me. And that the letters denote I hold a foreign passport. So I guess I don't really care as I just use this simply to travel in/out of China every few yrs.


  3. #13

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    I wouldn't just rely on a "family friend", there is a lot of incorrect info being spread around, I've seen it myself in HK, and I am not very familiar exactly how it works for people with mainland relatives.

    If your brother was born in HK, and is a Chinese citizen, he does not need 7 years residence in HK to get ROA in HK, he would have it instantly at birth.

    According to Basic Law Article 24(3) I believe his daughter should have ROA at birth:
    http://www.basiclaw.gov.hk/en/basicl...chapter_3.html


  4. #14

    Yea...so confusing...i had the same interpretation you had but so much diff things floating around. We made an appt for my brother next week, so I'll just ask the officer when we arrive. My colleague here (from China but lived in HK) has a HKID and HKSAR. I really don't see what the need is with the HKSAR if we already have a US passport. i mean you've got to pay fees on the HKSAR as well, don't you? i mean unless you're a super avid world-traveller, the only benefit i see w/ the HKSAR passport is to not pay for visas to countries where US passports would require it, right?


  5. #15

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    Your niece is a Chinese national with ROA. Instead of applying for One-way Permit, which may need several month and be depending on the mercy of the police, she can get an official document of Hukou cancelation (this document will be required to apply for HRP) and leave mainland China as a dual national (with the support of US consulate).

    She should:
    1) acquire US passport;
    2) register Hukou;
    3) request verification of Chinese nationality at local police;
    4) acquire PRC Entry & Exit Permit and cancel Hukou;
    5) travel from mainland to HK;
    6) request VEPIC at ImmD;
    7) acquire HKPID and HKSAR passport;
    8) apply for HRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SushiLover:
    I have read some of the posts here. Gosh, I was having such a headache dealing with my brother's situation. I got my HKID 10 yrs ago b/c I was HK-born and never got a HKID and just thought it would save me tons in visas, although prior to that, we've been paying the visas each time we visit China.

    My brother was utterly confused, since neither of us read Chinese and have no relatives in HK. He uses the US passport as his travel document and had to keep getting visas to go into China. After he married a local Mainlander, he would trek to HK every few months to get a visa. Several yrs ago i told him he should get his HKID. We applied but there was one stupid technicality. We left HK back to Mainland so when we mailed the application it was not postmarked until Monday, the following business day. Due to that stupid technacality, they rejected his application. (Are you serious). Years later a family friend asked him to re-apply but he didn't know what a HKID was, he thought he would lose his US citizenship, naive as he was. So this time when I go to visit, I'll help him out with this.

    Ok...back to his daughter--my niece. She was Mainland born (the entire family lives there). She obviously has her Mainland birth certificate and has a US passport since her dad is a US citizen. My brother says he can't take her to HK when I visit b/c she needs some sort of authorization from the Chin govt? Can someone elaborate this? Also, if she uses her US passport to travel from China to HK, would she forever need to get visas/visa renewals? What a pain? i, too, have been emailing immigration and each time they reply it's a diff person responding and I"m too frustrated.

    So just say my brother meets me in HK, turn in his application for HKPID (he's a cut and dry case, so I"d be surprised if it doesn't get approved). 10 days later, he receives his HKPID card. But could he submit the application for verification for my niece at the same time he submits his ROP1? and does he need to physically bring his child to HK to apply? The problem is that it's multi-stepped. Say after he gets his ID, he returns to HK w/ his child to apply for the "eligibility"...then they have to wait for their decision, then make a 2nd trip to apply for the ROP1 (?) , then submit in person and wait another 10 days to see if they get approved. If she gets approved, she can then go to China Travel Svs to get her 'return home" entry and can go back n forth using this? Or, will she be in more of a mess b/c they would ask her to get a visa for her US passport every 3 months b/c then she'd be considered a "foreigner" although she was born in China?!

    Ok, sorry for the long-winded description....
    Last edited by User; 09-12-2011 at 05:37 AM.

  6. #16

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    HKSAR passport is required when applying for the first HRP. So it is a one-time thing. She may never need to renew her HKSAR passport unless either she loses her HRP and needs to get a new one, or she needs to travel to a place hostile to americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by SushiLover:
    Yea...so confusing...i had the same interpretation you had but so much diff things floating around. We made an appt for my brother next week, so I'll just ask the officer when we arrive. My colleague here (from China but lived in HK) has a HKID and HKSAR. I really don't see what the need is with the HKSAR if we already have a US passport. i mean you've got to pay fees on the HKSAR as well, don't you? i mean unless you're a super avid world-traveller, the only benefit i see w/ the HKSAR passport is to not pay for visas to countries where US passports would require it, right?

  7. #17

    @User. Not true b/c as mentioned i applied and rec'd my HKPID in 2001 and then went to get my HRP. They never asked/told me i needed to apply for a HKSAR. And in 2001 those were my FIRST time applying for both of those cards. So, if that's the rule, this must have been implemented after 2001. Let's just hope all goes well when i return to process my renewal.

    @user--does the PRC permit have an expiration date? Will doing the above allow her to go back and forth out of China? I m ean, if it doesn't , for now, there's no point for her to get her HKID. She already has 1-5 except the police verification letter. Why does she need a police verification letter when she has a mainalnd birth certificate? My bro is just worried that she would have trouble getting back in PRC after she exits. So let's see if the immigration officer in HK could shed some light next week. We'll prob be getting half assed answered from them and be going back and forth. The family friend in HK tells us to forget about it and not complicate matters and when they are ready to re-locate back to the US to just get her to the States.


  8. #18

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    HKSAR passport became a requirement for first-time applicants some time after your application. No point to argue with this stupid junk PRC government. When you renewal your HRP, presentation of HK ID and old HRP (valid or expired doesn't matter) will be enough.

    Birth certs don't evidence nationality, thus verification is a must. Your niece's US citizenship is not recognized in China. She is a Chinese national ordinarily residing in mainland China and is not allowed to travel freely. As her US passport shows she was born in mainland China, HK ImmD will not accept her until evidence shows she has been released by the mainland authorities. And Guangdong Police will demand to see her Hukou cancelation document before issuing HRP. That's why the Hukou cancelation document is very important in her case.

    After she exits on a PRC Entry & Exit Permit (valid for only one exit within three month of issuance), she will be considered a non-mainlander Chinese and need either PRC Travel Document or HRP to enter the mainland.

    In some provinces, the police don't know how to deal with such kids. You may need to educate them.

    I guess your sister-in-law reads Chinese. Have her read these--
    å¤–å›½äººç­¾è¯æ”¿ç­–é ®ç­”-新生儿童类
    国籍审定

    Quote Originally Posted by SushiLover:
    @User. Not true b/c as mentioned i applied and rec'd my HKPID in 2001 and then went to get my HRP. They never asked/told me i needed to apply for a HKSAR. And in 2001 those were my FIRST time applying for both of those cards. So, if that's the rule, this must have been implemented after 2001. Let's just hope all goes well when i return to process my renewal.

    @user--does the PRC permit have an expiration date? Will doing the above allow her to go back and forth out of China? I m ean, if it doesn't , for now, there's no point for her to get her HKID. She already has 1-5 except the police verification letter. Why does she need a police verification letter when she has a mainalnd birth certificate? My bro is just worried that she would have trouble getting back in PRC after she exits. So let's see if the immigration officer in HK could shed some light next week. We'll prob be getting half assed answered from them and be going back and forth. The family friend in HK tells us to forget about it and not complicate matters and when they are ready to re-locate back to the US to just get her to the States.
    Last edited by User; 09-12-2011 at 11:38 AM.
    PDLM likes this.

  9. #19

    Thanks, User.

    Could I email you directly to talk further on this topic? You seem pretty knowledgeable with this (not sure if your family is in this situation). My brother and sis in law was considering to let my niece come stay with me for vacation (ie summer vacation, etc) so she can see other family mbrs (grandma, uncles, cousins and auntie) ....so say she leaves and goes overseas to stay with me using her US passort, when she returns to China she will basically be treated as a "foreigner" (holding a US passport)? Will this give her more problems in enrolling in school in China?

    I'm having such a big headache w/ this. Her mother says she will be treated as a foreigner if she leaves. She's never left her city of birth. She's already gotten so much discrimination by the local school and it has pissed my brother and I off so much. Her mother is out of province and left her province for Uni. After graduation from Uni, she found a job in the same city where she studied and worked. Then my bro and she met. Naturally she stayed in the province where she re-located when she left her hometown. As a result, my niece has been rejected from pre-k in the local city in which my niece was born b/c they were telling them that my niece's mother was born in a diff city. It really is infuriating considering they pay taxes, they support the govt. But get this. The schools never told the parents this criteria and encouraged them to apply nonetheless. With the applicatiopn came the interview process w/ the child and with that was a hefty (expected) "lai see". So after all that came the rejection letter and they found out after the fact and after they shelled out a few months' salary worth of lai see that the school doesn't accept children whose parents were born out of the city/province. After all that, they decided to home school her since she's so young anyway and that the school was basically a socialization process . But grandma was upset she was denied an education so they had to put her in a private (?) school/daycare. They tell me the kids don't learn ...they just let them play. I saw a vid of it...;and man it's chaotic. The chinese way of running a head-start /pre-k pgm vs western approaches...is pretty different. instead of showing kids and training them to do things themselves independently the teachers just do everything for the kids.

    Anyway....i wanted her to come visit, see how the rest of the world is, enrich her life and be able to freely go to both countries of her parents. But since you say she will be unable to freely go unless she decides to leave for good --like re-locate and never return to china to live...i'm not sure they can make such a big decision b4 a trial period.


  10. #20

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    As a Chinese national, your niece should not enter/exit mainland China on a foreign travel document. When she cancels Hukou and gets HKSAR passport, She will be able to get PRC Travel Document (from either Chinese commissioner in HK or Chinese consul in the US) or more preferably, HRP (from CTS in HK). Either document would allow her stay in mainland China indefinitely.

    However, mainland China has become a de-civilized society since '49. Kids without local Hukou don't have access to public education in this land. I would suggest that she should leave mainland China. Or, her parents may consider (after entering mainland China on HRP) forging a Hukou Booklet for schooling purpose and beat the evil system.

    Quote Originally Posted by SushiLover:
    ... so say she leaves and goes overseas to stay with me using her US passort, when she returns to China she will basically be treated as a "foreigner" (holding a US passport)? Will this give her more problems in enrolling in school in China?