Return home permit with HKID issude overseas ok?

[johnny206]

Hi All,

I'm a naturalized citizen of USA but I was born in HK. Recently, I was able to obtain my HKID and HK passport through the Chinese consulate in USA. My HKID has "issued overseas" printed and AZ with NO stars after it.

I'm going to HK later this year and I want to apply for my home return permit for easier travel to China but from most of the posts I've read, my ID card should have 3 stars (***) after AZ (AZ***) or I may not be eligible? What is the significance of the stars anyway?

So in summary, am I eligible to apply for a home return permit when I have 1) HK ID card issued overseas with just AZ and no stars and 2) a HK Passport.

Thanks for all your help!

[PDLM]

In principle, the *** indicates your eligibility for a Home Return Permit. Their absence implies that you're not eligible. However, the fact that you have a HK Passport would suggest that you are eligible.

An increasing number of cases are coming to light where the *** are either there when it appears they shouldn't be, or vice versa. I think you need to enquire about your specific case at Immigration, and perhaps get your HKID reissued with *** if you are eligible.

[Brown_By_Nature]

When I naturlized as a Chinese citizen, they made me get a new ID with the *** on it.

They issue ID cards out of Hong kong? First i've heard. Interesting,

[packy_crusher]

Just a note: Because you are an immigrant to the United States and were not "born an American Citizen" what you did by becoming recognized as a citizen of the People's Republic of China was technically illegal. It would have been different if you were "born an American citizen" and because of the citizenship of your mother or father or spunse, were able to obtain foreign citizenship. However, unless you became a citizen though derivative citizenship (which means your mother or father because a citizen before you were 18 years old), then when you became American, you renounced all prior citizenship. That is not to say some countries like the Commonwealth States will always recognize you as a citizen unless you take some specific legal action, but Hong Kong does not practice Universal Citizenship.

Many people do what you did and never have any repercussions, but you should know that your status is illegal because you voluntarily chose to be an American and abandon all other toes to your home country. I know this from extensive experience in the US Immigration field.

Additionally, you should also be aware that when you travel to Hong Kong or China, you are no longer an American in the eyes of Chinese law. You have lost all consular protection and will be treated as any other Chinese would be treated. The Chinese government will likely not even inform the US government should you ever be detained.

This is precisely why many returning Chinese foreign nationals who qualify for the home return permit and the HK Passport, choose not go get it, especially if they spend most of their time in Hong Kong. Alternatives to the HRP are the APEC travel pass, which in my experience has even shorter lines at Chinese immigration that the line for HRP holders.

Cheers

[PDLM]

However, unless you became a citizen though derivative citizenship (which means your mother or father because a citizen before you were 18 years old), then when you became American, you renounced all prior citizenship.

Could you please quote a .gov source to support this assertion?

[johnny206]

Just a note: Because you are an immigrant to the United States and were not "born an American Citizen" what you did by becoming recognized as a citizen of the People's Republic of China was technically illegal.

Hmm...I'm not too sure about this. The applications for HK ID and HK passport specify that only Chinese citizens are eligible - I am a Chinese citizen by the virtue of me being born in HK and both my parents are HK citizens. This was confirmed when I submitted "Verification of Eligibility" paper before applying for my HK ID and passport. I also had to submit a copy of my US naturalization certificate and passport so they were well aware of me being a naturalized US citizen. If they had a problem with me being both Chinese and US citizen at the same time, they would've rejected my application.

By the way, what does "universal citizenship" mean in your post? Do you mean dual citizenships? I'm pretty sure HK allows dual citizenships (think of all the HK citizens living in Canada) but PRC does not.

What you are saying of being "illegal" applies to PRC citizens, since the PRC does not recognize dual citizenships, one must give up all other citizenships if they wish to obtain/remain PRC citizenship. This is what happened to my friend: He was born in PRC, a PRC citizen. He became a naturalized US citizen years later. While travelling to the PRC a couple of years back, the PRC immigration/customs agent somehow saw BOTH his PRC and US passport. They informed him that from the PRC's point of view, he can only legally be a citizen of PRC or USA, one or the other but not both. They handed him a pair of scissors and requested him to cut up one passport (he picked the PRC). He had to renounce his PRC citizenship and enter PRC as a US citizen.

Since HK is under the principle of "one country two systems," what's legal or not legal in PRC may not necessarily apply to HK, e.g. dual citizenships.

ANYWAY, can someone please tell me why my HK ID card issued overseas doesn't have 3 stars ***? I have my HK passport, I should have the stars, right??? Was it a simple mistake on HK immigration dept. part? If *** denotes permanent residency and citizenship, and my ID card doesn't have it, why did they give me my HK passport? With my current HK ID with no stars, am I going to have trouble obtaining my home returning permit?

[mingming]

Probably Immigration Dept can give you all the answers, but here is what I found:

1. The three stars *** means the holder is eligible for a HKSAR Re-Entry Permit (回港証). It is a travel document for HK residents to travel between China and Macau. However, it is not an indicator whether you are eligible for a HRP.

GovHK: The Smart Identity Card

I remember when we were small, we needed to carry three documents to go to China: HKID, HK Re-Entry Permit (a book size) and a travel document to China (a book size). In about 15 years ago, China introduced the HRP in a credit card size for easy carrying, and we no longer have a history record of in/out.

And needless to say, we don't even need the HK Re-Entry Permit anymore.

"Under the Easy Travel Scheme, holders of Hong Kong identity cards bearing "***", "*" or "R" symbol or locally issued Hong Kong permanent identity cards, who are aged 11 or above, can travel from Hong Kong to the Mainland and Macao SAR and vice versa without producing an HKSAR Re-entry Permit or other travel documents at any Hong Kong immigration control point. They are also not required to fill in any arrival card or departure card."

GovHK: Eligibility for HKSAR Re-entry Permit

2. Check the CTS website, you only need to provide a HKID and HKSAR passport to apply a HRP. It doesn't mention that 3 stars are required.

港澳居民來往內地通行證 (in Chinese only)

So, I believe that you should not have problems to apply the HRP.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[User]

*** is designed by HK ImmD for its own convenience and is never required by the law. Unfortunately, ImmD has made tons of mistakes on ***. ID holders who should get *** but don't have it may get it when they have a renewal or a replacement. Similarly, absence of *** may mean the holder is not over 18 or not eligible for a Re-Entry Permit, or, simply another error.

When you apply for HRP, you must evidence that you are a Chinese citizen (by presenting your HKSAR passport) and that you are a permanent resident of HK (by presenting your HKPIC). Absence of *** may alert CTS but you will be cleared. CTS (mainland authorities) is aware of that very well. Don't worry.

Forget about ***.

[User]

Why "technically illegal"? Although Johnny didn't have a proper document to evidence his Chinese citizenship before he acquired an HKSAR passport, he has always been regarded as a Chinese citizen by the PRC authorities according to PRC laws. That's perfectly legal.

For those who are eligible for HRP and choose not to get it, PRC authorities will still regard them as Chinese citizens, even if they never held any proof of Chinese nationality and entered China on a foreign passport. The birthplace info in Johnny's US passport will disclose his Chinese nationality. If -- touch wood -- Johnny involves in a trouble in either Beijing or HK, it will be easy for the PRC authorities to check his birth records and personnel registration records and reveal his Chinese citizenship. The Chinese border entry stamp does not guarantee US consular assistance.

If Chinese (HK resident) wants to have access to a foreign country's consular protection in China, he should renounce his Chinese citizenship at HK ImmD. It makes no difference if he/she choose to hold or not to hold HRP or SAR passport.

Just a note: Because you are an immigrant to the United States and were not "born an American Citizen" what you did by becoming recognized as a citizen of the People's Republic of China was technically illegal. It would have been different if you were "born an American citizen" and because of the citizenship of your mother or father or spunse, were able to obtain foreign citizenship. However, unless you became a citizen though derivative citizenship (which means your mother or father because a citizen before you were 18 years old), then when you became American, you renounced all prior citizenship. That is not to say some countries like the Commonwealth States will always recognize you as a citizen unless you take some specific legal action, but Hong Kong does not practice Universal Citizenship.

Many people do what you did and never have any repercussions, but you should know that your status is illegal because you voluntarily chose to be an American and abandon all other toes to your home country. I know this from extensive experience in the US Immigration field.

Additionally, you should also be aware that when you travel to Hong Kong or China, you are no longer an American in the eyes of Chinese law. You have lost all consular protection and will be treated as any other Chinese would be treated. The Chinese government will likely not even inform the US government should you ever be detained.

This is precisely why many returning Chinese foreign nationals who qualify for the home return permit and the HK Passport, choose not go get it, especially if they spend most of their time in Hong Kong. Alternatives to the HRP are the APEC travel pass, which in my experience has even shorter lines at Chinese immigration that the line for HRP holders.

Cheers

[bryant.english]

By the way, what does "universal citizenship" mean in your post? Do you mean dual citizenships? I'm pretty sure HK allows dual citizenships (think of all the HK citizens living in Canada) but PRC does not.

Finally, somebody gets it - !!!! Exactly right!