Babies born abroad...

MXZ · 09-01-2008, 06:19 PM

Hiya,

I have emailed the government departments involved but they can take ages to reply, so I thought I'd ask around here as I imagine I can't be the first with this particular problem

I am a British citizen by birth in the UK. I live in HK with my wife who's a Chinese citizen with permanent right of abode in HK.

From what I've read so far, I can register my children as British citizens by descent. The only real difference is that they cannot pass this on to their children unless their children are born in the UK. Is that correct?

If they are born in HK, do they automatically get a permanent ID card? Are they considered "Chinese by descent" and thus have the return home permit so they can go to China / have a HKSAR passport?

We're trying to work out the best place for our children to be born to ensure that they have the greatest flexibility for their futures

Any advice greatly received!

Cheers,

MXZ

shilo507 · 09-01-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by MXZ:

I am a British citizen by birth in the UK. I live in HK with my wife who's a Chinese citizen with permanent right of abode in HK.

From what I've read so far, I can register my children as British citizens by descent. The only real difference is that they cannot pass this on to their children unless their children are born in the UK. Is that correct?

This is the only part I can answer and you are correct to say that as a British citizen your child will quailify for British citizenship regardless of where they are born (provided you have not renounced your British citizenship). You are also correct to say that your children's children will only qualify for British citizenship if they are born in the UK as citenship through descent can only be claimed by one generation.

I am sure someone else more knowledgeable can answer your other questions.

PDLM · 09-01-2008, 06:35 PM

Your understanding of the British part accords with mine: if they are born outside the UK then they can be British, but their children will not be unless they are born in the UK. If your children are born in the UK then that pushes the "Britishness" out one more generation.

Others are no doubt better placed to comment on the HK/Chinese end of it, but as far as I can see from The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department Chinese nationality doesn't differentiate between "by descent" and "otherwise than by descent" in the way that British one does. And it seems clear that provided you are not "settled" outside China when your children are born then they will be regarded as having Chinese nationality, which is passable on exactly as it is from your wife.

MXZ · 09-01-2008, 06:42 PM

Brilliant, thanks for that

jaykay · 10-01-2008, 09:26 AM

Agreed with all the above on British citizenship and PDLM is correct in regard to Chinese citizenship and just to quantify that a little more as I have been through this situation.....

When you register the birth here in HK they will state on the birth certificate that permanent residency is established, obviously as your wife is PR. ID cards are not normally required for children under the age of 11 unless you apply for a HKSAR passport for your child whereby you also need to apply for an ID card which does not have a picture on it. After this you can apply for a return home permit. Best to do all this first to establish the child's Chinese nationality and then apply for a UK passport to establish their British citizenship - HK/China does not recognise dual nationality but the UK does and I'd rather play it safe!

TOR2008 · 16-01-2008, 05:33 AM

Don't worry about where your unborn children have their children. I think it's right that Britishness is only passed one generation, since it's really hard to impart culture & values of a country down so many levels whilst abroad.

In the worst case, your GRANDCHILDREN can still be citizens if YOUR CHILDREN live in the UK for a continuous period of 3 years, and the grandchildren are registered before the age of 1 (see UK Born Grandparents - Am I Eligible for a UK passport?British High Commission, Ottawa). It seems fair, IMO since it's not such a burden to live in the UK really, or is it?

MXZ · 16-01-2008, 04:32 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies! Our biggest concern was to ensure our children had the best access possible. Having ROA in HK, free access to China is a fair trade off for them to be able to automatically pass on British citizenship. I guess that will be something for them to worry about when they get to that age

Thanks again!

noct · 16-02-2008, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by MXZ:

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies! Our biggest concern was to ensure our children had the best access possible. Having ROA in HK, free access to China is a fair trade off for them to be able to automatically pass on British citizenship. I guess that will be something for them to worry about when they get to that age

Thanks again!

The best place to have your kid born is in fact the US of A. That way, s/he gets US citizenship by birth (regardless of parental citizenship status), BOTH British and PRC(Hong Kong) citizenship by descent. This trilogy is the best parents can offer to their kids as it affords access to the three major markets (US/EU/China) in the coming days if a trip to the US is feasible. This is certainly what i am going to do when i get married and have my kids.

For your grandkids to retain UK citizenship, just have them born on british or irish soils.

noct · 16-02-2008, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by noct:

The best place to have your kid born is in fact the US of A. That way, s/he gets US citizenship by birth (regardless of parental citizenship status), BOTH British and PRC(Hong Kong) citizenship by descent. This trilogy is the best parents can offer to their kids as it affords access to the three major markets (US/EU/China) in the coming days if a trip to the US is feasible. This is certainly what i am going to do when i get married and have my kids.

For your grandkids to retain UK citizenship, just have them born on british or irish soils.

One clarification, for children born overseas to a parent of Chinese (HK) nationality, s/he can only be conferred the Hong Kong ROA but not a chinese citizenship. (i.e. s/he's entitled the HKID card and rights to work in the HKSAR but not the HKSAR passport).

Depending whether you prefer just the HK ROA or a Chinese citizenship, that option I suggested may or may not be best for you. For me a US citizenship seems very advantageous hence my suggestion.

jaykay · 16-02-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by noct:

The best place to have your kid born is in fact the US of A. That way, s/he gets US citizenship by birth (regardless of parental citizenship status), BOTH British and PRC(Hong Kong) citizenship by descent. This trilogy is the best parents can offer to their kids as it affords access to the three major markets (US/EU/China) in the coming days if a trip to the US is feasible. This is certainly what i am going to do when i get married and have my kids.

For your grandkids to retain UK citizenship, just have them born on british or irish soils.

And it also gives them a pain in the arse tax burden for the rest of their lives!