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Naturalising as Chinese with British passport - can you keep both nationalities?

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  1. #31

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    It is actually very simple, it is the party who has the last word.
    Just like in Nazi Germany there were a few Jews who were exempted from the race laws.


  2. #32

    looking into this myself now and saw this on the British passport page about resuming your British nationality:

    https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-...sh-nationality

    Supporting documents you’ll need to send:

    - your copy of your declaration of renunciation (either form RN1 or R6)
    - your passport, or certificate of naturalisation or registration for your current citizenship or nationality
    - an official letter or statement from the country you’re currently a citizen or national of saying that if you hadn’t given up your British citizenship you’d have lost or failed to get your current citizenship or nationality

    is that likely to be easy to get? i'd assume not, since they make such a point of making sure you renounce your previous citizenship


  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedseagle:
    looking into this myself now and saw this on the British passport page about resuming your British nationality:

    https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-...sh-nationality

    Supporting documents you’ll need to send:

    - your copy of your declaration of renunciation (either form RN1 or R6)
    - your passport, or certificate of naturalisation or registration for your current citizenship or nationality
    - an official letter or statement from the country you’re currently a citizen or national of saying that if you hadn’t given up your British citizenship you’d have lost or failed to get your current citizenship or nationality

    is that likely to be easy to get? i'd assume not, since they make such a point of making sure you renounce your previous citizenship


    Wouldn't a copy of the approved-in-principle letter (which IIUC states that the holder has been approved for naturalisation, but must now renounce the former nationality or else the naturalisation will fail), which is received during the naturalisation process, be enough?

  4. #34

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    A theoretical question. If someone is a dual citizen, say British and Canadian, but the HK govt is only aware of his Canadian citizenship as that's the passport he uses to enter HK. When he applies for Chinese nationality, can he only renounce his Canadian nationality? Will it be possible for the government to find out, assuming it is not obvious that he has the other nationality (e.g. obtained by descent and not by jus soli) ?


  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by kma88:
    A theoretical question. If someone is a dual citizen, say British and Canadian, but the HK govt is only aware of his Canadian citizenship as that's the passport he uses to enter HK. When he applies for Chinese nationality, can he only renounce his Canadian nationality? Will it be possible for the government to find out, assuming it is not obvious that he has the other nationality (e.g. obtained by descent and not by jus soli) ?
    I'm not sure how they'd find out. It's not like ImmD can file a request with every embassy or consulate in HK asking, "hey does this person have the nationality of your country?" - I can see this getting worse, as it's possible that the dual citizen is not even aware of possessing the British nationality, so if asked that person can honestly claim not to possess any other.

    I suppose one way ImmD could find out is if such a dual citizen naturalized as Chinese and then tried to get an HK ROA sticker on the other (British) passport - which was issued prior to the Chinese naturalization.

    Of course, an angry ex could always steal photocopies of relevant documents (like the British passport or a certificate which dated the award of British nationality) and send them to the relevant government agency, asking them to investigate. So, even if it'd be very difficult for them to find out, the risk would always be there.

  6. #36

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    Actually, I don't think it really matters all that much. It's a bit like the TV license in the UK. They don't need special detectors or gadgets, because they simply have a list of people who have paid. In terms of citizenship here, you agreed that you lost your other citizenships when you took Chinese citizenship. Whether you actually renounced them or not is immaterial - you declared that you did, and China will hold you to that. Same for restoration of other citizenships. They don't need to do or catch you at anything. At some point if and when it becomes an issue, they'll point to the relevant law and say "well, this is what the law says".

    If you think you can keep another citizenship and whip it out in time to "save you", you're mistaken. China won't recognise it, and if you hold Chinese citizenship, none of the other countries you are a citizen of can do much for you in any case i.e. you don't have the right to consular protection.

    I did email HK IMMD, and they basically repeated the party line and highlighted the two Articles in the CNL. If you take Chinese citizenship, you don't keep any foreign nationality. If you regain a foreign citizenship, you automatically lose Chinese citizenship. Whether or not there is room for interpretation or it operates on a case of "don't ask don't tell" I don't know. But should there ever be problems, expect them to point to CNL and interpret it however it best suits them

    dossier likes this.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    Actually, I don't think it really matters all that much. It's a bit like the TV license in the UK. They don't need special detectors or gadgets, because they simply have a list of people who have paid. In terms of citizenship here, you agreed that you lost your other citizenships when you took Chinese citizenship. Whether you actually renounced them or not is immaterial - you declared that you did, and China will hold you to that.
    I don't agree with this. If this was the case, all that would be necessary is a declaration. However, ImmD will not allow you to naturalize until you submit official documentation from your country that you have renounced their nationality (unless you are de jure stateless).

    What you are describing sounds closer to American policy - when a person naturalizes as a US national, they have to sign an oath stating that they've renounced all former "allegiances" (at least in the past, the US govt reviewed this as including nationality/citizenship). However, there's no attempt to follow through and make sure this was actually done - instead, the US will generally treat you as a US national only and ignore any other nationality you may possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    Same for restoration of other citizenships. They don't need to do or catch you at anything. At some point if and when it becomes an issue, they'll point to the relevant law and say "well, this is what the law says".
    Agreed - though in the specific case of restoration there is a question of what the law currently says. (More accurately, it's a question on the proper interpretation.)


    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    Whether or not there is room for interpretation or it operates on a case of "don't ask don't tell" I don't know. But should there ever be problems, expect them to point to CNL and interpret it however it best suits them

    If you think you can keep another citizenship and whip it out in time to "save you", you're mistaken. China won't recognise it, and if you hold Chinese citizenship, none of the other countries you are a citizen of can do much for you in any case i.e. you don't have the right to consular protection.
    Agreed. (Well mostly, there's at least one theoretical exception to this, but for most in this position it would not apply.) Of course, having only foreign nationality and having consular protection isn't going to do a whole lot for you anyways - I think dossier's post that the UK's response was basically "keep us posted" sums it up best.

    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    I did email HK IMMD, and they basically repeated the party line and highlighted the two Articles in the CNL.
    Which 2? Articles 8 and 9? Did they mention anything about the 1996 interpretations? (They should have.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    If you take Chinese citizenship, you don't keep any foreign nationality.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    If you regain a foreign citizenship, you automatically lose Chinese citizenship.
    ImmD actually said this? In the past, rather than answering hypothetical questions, they just quoted the relevant text from the law in their email and let you figure out what the answer was from that.

    It would be a stunning result if ImmD considered that the 1996 Interpretations on Article 9 of the CNL did not apply to those who have naturalized.

  8. #38

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    My bad, I should have been clearer. You are quite correct, they didn't specifically say that.

    What they did say was:

    However, please note that according to Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, Article 9: Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalised as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

    Where the underlining was provided by them.

    Sorry for causing confusion


  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by MXZ:
    My bad, I should have been clearer. You are quite correct, they didn't specifically say that.

    What they did say was:

    However, please note that according to Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, Article 9: Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalised as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

    Where the underlining was provided by them.

    Sorry for causing confusion
    Hmm. Well, you haven't provided their complete response or provided answers to my other two questions. Without at least the latter, I hesistate to draw any conclusions from this snippet.

    However, the underlining is very interesting. It suggests that ImmD believes just obtaining a foreign nationality by free will is enough. My understanding was that the mainland applied the 'settled abroad' rule in all cases - i.e. one had to be settled abroad to lose Chinese nationality, and someone who was able to willingly acquire a foreign nationality while still within Chinese territory could not immediately lose Chinese nationality this way. (Though if one acquires a foreign nationality and then later settles abroad, it might be a different story.) So we'd have yet another area where HK and the mainland interpret the same law differently.

  10. #40

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    Just sharing from Wikipedia. They don't have any citations on this bit, but it adds another perspective to the mix. It seems to agree that you have to settle abroad, and that if I were to reinstate my British Citizenship, it would merely be considered that I had the right of abode in that country, nothing more:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...se_nationality

    Here are the original replies to my emails:

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Thank you for your e-mail message.

    Explanation in 1996 applied to person who is Chinese descent/ Chinese National, but not for naturalisation as a Chinese national.



    Any person who meets the requirements laid down in Articles 7 and 8 of the CNL can apply for naturalisation as a Chinese national.

    Article 7

    Foreign nationals or stateless persons who are willing to abide by China’s constitution and laws and who meet one of the following conditions may be naturalised upon approval of their applications:
    they are near relatives of Chinese nationals;
    they have settled in China; or
    they have other legitimate reasons.



    Article 8

    Any person who applies for naturalisation as a Chinese national shall acquire Chinese nationality upon approval of his application; a person whose application for naturalisation as a Chinese national has been approved shall not retain foreign nationality.

    For details of application, please browse: Application for Naturalisation as a Chinese National | Immigration Department



    I hope you will find the above information of use.
    I then asked whether or not I would lose Chinese nationality on restoring my British citizenship to which they replied:

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Thank you for your e-mail message.

    Regarding to the Restoration of British nationality, it is outside the purview of Hong Kong Immigration Department. You may enquire with British authority directly.

    However, please note that according to Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, Article 9: Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalised as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

    I hope you will find the above information of use.
    The "... or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality." was underlined in the email.

    So, does it mean you have to be settled abroad and then naturalize or acquire willingly, or is it settle abroad and naturalize or willingly acquire it.

    Just sent a reply to them, even though it was a while ago asking them to clarify. Here's my email:

    I realise that I asked this question several months ago, but I was wondering if you could clarify one thing from Article 9 for me.

    It is not clear whether Article 9 means this:

    1. Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalised as a foreign national
    2. or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality

    or whether it means:

    1. Any Chinese national who has settled abroad
    2. and who has been naturalised as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality


    Specifically, would Article 9 only apply if I have settled abroad before either naturalising or willingly acquiring a foreign nationality?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by MXZ; 30-07-2016 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Added new email