HKID affected by UK passport

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  1. #11

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    What seems to me to have happened both in your case and that of mulan_nasil is that the interpretation of the grounds for being a Chinese Citizen have changed between when you were issued your juvenile HKID and when you got your adult one.

    Article 5 of the Chinese Nationality Law as currently stated (see above) is clear. If you were born in the UK after your parents were settled there and at least one of them held British citizenship at that time (thereby giving you automatic British Citizenship at birth) then you are not a Chinese Citizen.

    Someone like you in that situation born now would not have any right to a HKID card at all - they would simply be a British Citizen like all other British Citizens. However, the previous interpretation under British rule seems to have been that people of HK descent born in the UK would still have a HKID card (with right of abode). To deal with these awkward cases ImmD seems to have decided to treat you as if you were a foreigner who had acquired the Right of Abode by 7 years residency, even though obviously that's not how you did it. Under the current interpretation of the law you are not Chinese and so you lose the *** (and hence the eligibility for a HRP), and in order to retain Right of Abode you need to touch HK every 3 years. If you don't then you get downgraded to Right to Land, which is what I believe you have now.

    So the not coming here for 3 years didn't actually affect your Chinese Citizenship or eligibility for the HRP (I think CTS simply made a mistake there). All it did was mean that you can't vote, you can be deported, and any kids of yours born here won't automatically get Right of Abode.

    That's my interpretation anyway.


  2. #12

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    You're right, any British citizen applying for a HKID would be denied now, my "generation" is so lucky to have been allowed, I just managed to get it before the rules changed in the late 90s.

    Originally (my dad claims), any non-HK residents born to parents of HK were allowed to get a HKPID as long as they returned to HK once every 3 years, then once the children grew up and got the adult HKPID, they don't have to return once every 3 years ever.

    But it appears that since well recently, even if you are awarded with the HKPID, if you are away from HK for more than 3 years, you automatically lose ROA and it gets demoted to RTL whether you are a Chinese citizen or not.

    I plan to move to HK anyway in the future, but chances are, I may never get my ROA even if I live in HK for 7 years cos I think I will have to renounce my British nationality; and I'm not ready to do that.

    Last edited by Rzr10; 03-12-2009 at 06:19 AM.

  3. #13

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    The PRC nationality law has applied in Hong Kong since the handover in 1997. But I guess before the handover they probably didn't apply it properly (for example *** meant Chinese race from what I have seen), and even to a degree after the handover.

    I've probably explained this many times, just take a look at my website for more info, where I had summarized it:
    A Guide to the Right of Abode in Hong Kong

    But Rzr10, does this mean you have "right to land" then? It's marked by an R status on your ID card, instead of the A for right of abode.

    I'll just assume you have RTL then, if you just live in Hong Kong for 7 years continuously then you can re-apply for ROA just like any non-Chinese citizen that has lived there for 7 years and declared HK as the place of permanent residence.


  4. #14

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    You're right, I currently have a R as my status on my HKID.

    Since I received my HKID, I've accepted the fact that I don't have ROA (after a mild depression mind you, lol) but as long as it does not hinder my travels, like entering HK - I can use the E-channel, going to Shenzhen, I can again use E-channel to exit HK and the Chinese E-channel for the Home Return Permit card and vice versa upon returning, and going to Macau, I can just queue up on the HK Resident line instead of the gawd awful Visitor line. I'm content.

    Sure, I may not be entitled to receive any inheritance as my family owns property in the N.T., but I have my cousins and brothers still who could manage family affairs.


  5. #15

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    Why would you not be entitled to receive your inheritance? "Foreigners" can own property in HK, can't they? (excuse my ignorance here, I know nothing about HK inheritance laws. Just confused as to why if non-HK permanent residents can own property, there would be any issue with someone being passed property as part of an inherirtance.)


  6. #16

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    They can, but there are some very specific laws to do with "indigenous" New Territories families and their right to land that they may not have inhabited for generations. It's a bit like Indian reservations in the US, or Maori/aboriginal rights in Australasia.


  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rzr10:

    But it appears that since well recently, even if you are awarded with the HKPID, if you are away from HK for more than 3 years, you automatically lose ROA and it gets demoted to RTL whether you are a Chinese citizen or not.
    Chinese citizens of HK (eg HK-born Chinese) who are resident overseas will never lose ROA unless they declare change of nationality. The 3 year does not apply to them - they can be absent from HK for decades and still retain full PR status, entitlement to HKSAR passport & HRP - as long as they don't renounce their Chinese citizenship which is what they are solely regarded as by default by the Chinese govt.

    Non-Chinese citizens (eg most Overseas-born Chinese) who have ROA/HKPIC either because they obtained it by descent under the more relaxed pre-97 rules, or by 7 yrs residence, however will lose ROA and be demoted to RTL if they are absent from HK for >36 months.

    See: The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department

    A8:

    If you were a Chinese citizen born in Hong Kong before the establishment of the HKSAR, you will still be regarded as a Chinese citizen unless you have made a declaration of change of nationality to the HKSAR Immigration Department. You are eligible for Hong Kong permanent resident status under paragraph 2(a) of Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance, Cap 115. You will not lose your Hong Kong permanent resident status even if you have been absent from Hong Kong for long periods.

    I plan to move to HK anyway in the future, but chances are, I may never get my ROA even if I live in HK for 7 years cos I think I will have to renounce my British nationality; and I'm not ready to do that.
    If you legally reside in HK for 7 years continuous, then you will be entitled to upgrade your ID card to PR status with ROA. However you remain a non-Chinese citizen, which means the 3 year rule applies and you could lose your ROA if you fail to maintain it. You would only need to renounce your British citizenship if you wish to apply to become a Chinese citizen.


  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    What seems to me to have happened both in your case and that of mulan_nasil is that the interpretation of the grounds for being a Chinese Citizen have changed between when you were issued your juvenile HKID and when you got your adult one.

    Article 5 of the Chinese Nationality Law as currently stated (see above) is clear. If you were born in the UK after your parents were settled there and at least one of them held British citizenship at that time (thereby giving you automatic British Citizenship at birth) then you are not a Chinese Citizen.

    Someone like you in that situation born now would not have any right to a HKID card at all - they would simply be a British Citizen like all other British Citizens. However, the previous interpretation under British rule seems to have been that people of HK descent born in the UK would still have a HKID card (with right of abode). To deal with these awkward cases ImmD seems to have decided to treat you as if you were a foreigner who had acquired the Right of Abode by 7 years residency, even though obviously that's not how you did it. Under the current interpretation of the law you are not Chinese and so you lose the *** (and hence the eligibility for a HRP), and in order to retain Right of Abode you need to touch HK every 3 years. If you don't then you get downgraded to Right to Land, which is what I believe you have now.

    So the not coming here for 3 years didn't actually affect your Chinese Citizenship or eligibility for the HRP (I think CTS simply made a mistake there). All it did was mean that you can't vote, you can be deported, and any kids of yours born here won't automatically get Right of Abode.

    That's my interpretation anyway.
    This is a very informative post. I have a question. If the OP does renounce his British citizenship, does that make him eligible to obtain a 3 star HKID card and HK passport?

    Since the OP was born in the UK while one of his parents held a UK citizenship, does that mean that he has no route to hold dual passports? I always thought that many people gained Right of Abode by staying here for seven years and were able to apply for a HK passport without giving up their original passports.
    Last edited by Andyhk888; 06-12-2009 at 12:54 AM.

  9. #19

    To PDLM

    My HKID card doesn't have RL (right to land) on it though
    its just got the letter A (right of abode)
    My HKID card is exactly like all my HK friends except that it doesn't have any stars on it so what does that mean??
    That i'm just not allowed to get the china pass but i can everything else?!?!!?

    also to Rzr10,

    i totally agree with you cuz i got cousins that are in the same position as me and yet they still managed to get the 3 star HKID card and they're roughly the same age as me too!!!
    so i was totally shocked when they told me they had to downgrade the stars!!!!
    and what made it worst was that the paper HKID thing they gave me already had the 3 stars on but it was later on in the day when they called me that they will be removed when i come to collect it in a couple of weeks time!!!!!
    i just think really screwed wit me!!!!

    i also needed to get my HKID renewed ASAP cuz i needed to get a permit to return to my home in HK which is in the frontier restricted area: Sha Tau Kok
    i dunno if you heard of it but unless you're a resident in that area, you can't enter even if you're a HK-born chinese or whatever.
    so in order to get that permit i needed my HKID card
    but now they removed the 3 stars on it
    i dunno if it will affect me renewing the permit
    cuz i have to have that permit or else i wouldn't be able to go home


  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyhk888:
    This is a very informative post. I have a question. If the OP does renounce his British citizenship, does that make him eligible to obtain a 3 star HKID card and an HK passport?

    Since the OP was born in the UK while one of his parents held a UK citizenship, does that mean that he has no route to hold dual passports? I always thought that many people gained Right of Abode by staying here for seven years and were able to apply for a HK passport without giving up their original passports.
    You'd have to naturalize as Chinese citizen to get *** and a HKSAR passport. And yes to do so you have to renounce British citizenship. The exception is those that were already Chinese and subsequently obtained some other nationality, in which case it's ok to have dual citizenship.

    If the OP was born a dual citizen, then he wouldn't need to renounce anything and have both citizenships. He could possibly have been born a Chinese citizen depending on his parents' immigration status in the UK.