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Needs some help regarding "Return to Village Pass" and Visa

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  1. #1

    Needs some help regarding "Return to Village Pass" and Visa

    Hi,

    Urgent help needed, would appreciate greatly for your feedback.

    I am sure it is pretty much the same but the rules keep changing.

    Born in Hong Kong of Chinese descent, both parents also born in HK, so right of abode no problems. Lived here until I was 12 years old before migrating to Australia.

    Became Australian Citizen in the 90s.

    Visited HK regularly for visiting relatives and holidays. I have a valid permanent IDC with (***)

    Returned to HK since May 2008.

    Going to China for the first time later this month.

    1. Applied for Return to Village Pass (RVP) with my permanent ID card but rejected on the spot because I do not have HKSAR passport. I have to wait until 18th May.

    2. Will obtain a certified copy of my birth certificate by this week as a secondary evidence for RVP, but have been told that it is not a valid form of document verifying that you are a Chinese citizen (??) by CTS and HKID - I thought if we are born from a Chinese descent we are automatically Chinese Citizen?? and

    3. Left with no choices and no time, I need to organise a visa with my Australian passport. I will need to complete a declaration stating that I am a foreign national. I will probably organise a multiple visits valid for 12 months.

    4. What would be the impact? Will I lose my right of abode????

    5. I was told it is better off to have consular protection whilst in China?

    I have checked the HKID and CTS backwards and forwards so many time still not fully convince with their answers. Hence, your assistance would be much appreciated! Thanks!


  2. #2

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    You should be a Chinese citizen unless you made a declaration of change of nationality to Australian.

    1. Get the HKSAR passport if you can.

    2. That may be somewhat arbitrary, but the HKSAR passport can definitely prove that you are a Chinese citizen. They've tightened that up in recent years.

    3. You can try applying for a visa in your Australian passport, that probably would work I imagine. But if you do the formal "declaration of change of nationality" (info here: The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department) then you will lose your Chinese citizenship.

    4. Simply applying for the visa should be ok (though they might not give it to you if they think you're a Chinese citizen). You could lose ROA by changing your nationality if you didn't meet certain residency requirements in Hong Kong since the handover in 1997.

    5. Maybe. But unless you formally change your nationality, they can probably still regard you as a Chinese citizen and not allow consular assistance even if you use your Australian passport.

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  3. #3

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    Your presumption of "Chinese citizen" applies only under mainland law. Thus you are and will be forever subject to the laws and regulations of the PRC that other foreign nationals are not because of your place of birth and surname. As it stands now, it seems that you are technically not a Chinese citizen and never were, and are only a permanent resident of the SAR of which their are hundreds of thousands who, like you, do not posses Chinese nationality.

    Applying for an SAR passport, if granted would confirm your Chinese nationality as Chinese and you should be eligible. I know of Taiwanese Americans, who after getting the PRHKID were abel to also get an HKSAR passport. However, I woudl make sure you really want the HKSAR passport before you do that.

    You do not have to make a declaration of change of nationality because you were never a Chinese national. If I understand you correctly, you probably immigrated to Australia and a UK national with a BNO travel document. Nationality should not be confused with ethnicity and I know the lines can be blurred in China, because typically, ethic Chinese are afforded extra privileges, but are also subject to national treatment.

    If you don't mind getting a Visa, if you do it from the country of origin, which for you is AUS, then you can get up to a year visa with 90 day multiple entry, which should work fine. But since you are a permanent resident, a way to avoid all of this is apply for an APEC travel pass, using your HKID and AUS passport. You can do it online and it only takes a few months. The APEC travel pass allows you to enter APCEC countries (excluding US) without a visa. China is included, and the pass lasts for 3 years and can be renewed. It really is a good deal.

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  4. #4

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    One more thing, it is my understanding that because you emigrated prior to the change of sovereignty, what constitutes a "Chinese citizen" may not apply to you in your case. You really need to ask an expert, because on July 1, 1997, the nationality laws were completely changed.


  5. #5

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    It depends, as he was born in Hong Kong, it was basically taken that "most" ethnic Chinese born there before the handover are Chinese citizens regardless of whatever British travel document they may have held.

    HK Chinese citizens are essentially allowed to get another citizenship. But if they formally "declare" their other citizenship to the Hong Kong Immigration Department, then they will lose Chinese citizenship. By declaring your foreign citizenship you will also be accorded the appropriate consular protection.


  6. #6

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    With regards to getting a visa pronto - don't declare a change of nationality as it will affect your ROA - my wife and youngest son had a similar issue afew weeks ago. They are "Chinese" with UK passports so CTS wouldn't give them a visa.

    We were in a bit of a rush as we had booked a trip to Shanghai at Easter, so our travel agent arranged for their passports to be taken into Shenzhen and endorsed with a visa there instead. It took two days, cost a bit more but the visa was put in the passport without any problems and we used them to go to Shanghai last month.

    jonnoleung likes this.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hairball:
    2. That may be somewhat arbitrary, but the HKSAR passport can definitely prove that you are a Chinese citizen. They've tightened that up in recent years.
    It's not the only proof that you're a Chinese citizen, of course, but they probably will accept only an HKSAR passport as proof because of the extremely low margin of error (whereas there seem to be a lot of people with ROA and *** who are not chinese citizens).

    Hmm, now that I think of it, stateless people have a *** on their ID (because they are eligible for the re-entry permit), and those that've stayed in HK for 7 years or more would probably have ROA too, but if they've never naturalized them they'd be legitimately holding an ID card with ROA and *** but still ineligible for an HKSAR Passport or a Home Return Permit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairball:
    5. Maybe. But unless you formally change your nationality, they can probably still regard you as a Chinese citizen and not allow consular assistance even if you use your Australian passport.
    I don't know if Australia has a treaty like Canada and the US does with China.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    One more thing, it is my understanding that because you emigrated prior to the change of sovereignty, what constitutes a "Chinese citizen" may not apply to you in your case. You really need to ask an expert, because on July 1, 1997, the nationality laws were completely changed.
    I don't know, I think it's arguable that the PRC nationality laws were unchanged and that only the British ones changed... (although the laws about ROA and ROL completely changed in 1997 at the same time).

    In any case, for those born in any part of China, they would be considered Chinese citizens the same if they applied before 1997 or at any time after 1997...

    Hairball's guide to ROA covers this perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    As it stands now, it seems that you are technically not a Chinese citizen and never were, and are only a permanent resident of the SAR of which their are hundreds of thousands who, like you, do not posses Chinese nationality.
    What counts here is 1) being born in HK and 2) being of Chinese ethnicity (or alternatively, being able to trace one's ancestors to subjects of the Qing dynasty from the time before HK was taken by the British under a very extreme interpretation of nationality by descent).

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    You do not have to make a declaration of change of nationality because you were never a Chinese national. If I understand you correctly, you probably immigrated to Australia and a UK national with a BNO travel document.
    I believe that the majority of BNO holders were Chinese citizens...

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    Nationality should not be confused with ethnicity and I know the lines can be blurred in China, because typically, ethic Chinese are afforded extra privileges, but are also subject to national treatment.
    National treatment? You mean treatment as a Chinese national? Can you state an example? Keep in mind that http://chinadivide.com/2010/chinas-n...c-chinese.html was an April fools post...

    Or did you mean they are treated as foreign nationals but given extra privileges (under the various treatment of overseas chinese laws that the PRC has, etc) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    Your presumption of "Chinese citizen" applies only under mainland law. Thus you are and will be forever subject to the laws and regulations of the PRC that other foreign nationals are not because of your place of birth and surname.
    I guess this is true, but the only explicit laws that I can think of off the top of my head for those that really never were Chinese citizens are the treatment of overseas chinese laws...

    Things are different if you are a former Chinese citizen but gave up or lost Chinese nationality, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    If you don't mind getting a Visa, if you do it from the country of origin, which for you is AUS, then you can get up to a year visa with 90 day multiple entry, which should work fine. But since you are a permanent resident, a way to avoid all of this is apply for an APEC travel pass, using your HKID and AUS passport. You can do it online and it only takes a few months. The APEC travel pass allows you to enter APCEC countries (excluding US) without a visa. China is included, and the pass lasts for 3 years and can be renewed. It really is a good deal.
    I think an HK permanent resident can also apply for multiple entry visas directly in HK.

  8. #8

    Hi, was your wife and child born in China?




    Quote Originally Posted by Pekkerhead:
    With regards to getting a visa pronto - don't declare a change of nationality as it will affect your ROA - my wife and youngest son had a similar issue afew weeks ago. They are "Chinese" with UK passports so CTS wouldn't give them a visa.

    We were in a bit of a rush as we had booked a trip to Shanghai at Easter, so our travel agent arranged for their passports to be taken into Shenzhen and endorsed with a visa there instead. It took two days, cost a bit more but the visa was put in the passport without any problems and we used them to go to Shanghai last month.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnoleung:
    Hi, was your wife and child born in China?
    Both of them born in Hong Kong.
    Last edited by Pekkerhead; 05-05-2010 at 10:13 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pekkerhead:
    Both of them born in Hong Kong.
    It seems to be case of damm if you do, damm if you don't. Getting my travel agent just to get a single entry this time round and have the visa endorsed in Shenzhen. Finger crosses. The thing is, what "officially stated" does not necessary applies, and it is depending on one officer's interpretation. I am sure there are hundreds and thousands of people like me going through it. Perhaps it is a form of punishment for trying to do the right thing???
    Posted via Mobile Device

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